Sure is nice driving an EV and not being impacted by oil prices.
Reality check on electric cars
- Thread starter Stringfellow Hawk
- Start date
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
I guess that's fine, if you never want to go anywhere outside of the city you live in...
QP!
Verified User
That makes no sense.Farmers do it all the time.
If they can do it, so can the average person.
Doing something small scale and focused with dangerous materials is part of many jobs. They get specific training on handling and yet accidents still do happen.
Pushing it out to the masses where you have a high percent of reckless drivers and honest accidents is not a place for such a dangerous fuel
QP!
Verified User
A second stupid statement as there are few places, unless you are going deep rural, where the battery range now is not sufficient with the available chargers.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Earlier this month, I drove from Phoenix to Tucson a distance of about 150 miles. Outside of the two metro areas, I saw maybe 2 or 3 Teslas on I 10 driving between the two. The number present rose considerably once inside the metro area, particularly Phoenix. People simply aren't buying them, for the most part, as their go-anywhere vehicle but as a second "daily driver" for commutes and other short trips.
QP!
Verified User
That is not what you said.
In your stupidity you claimed they cannot drive out of a town and that is simply completely inaccurate. You could easily plan a cross America trip, coast to coast, easily with today's ev range and charger access. You would have to do more work too identify the few places that might be a challenge.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
I'm saying few people are willing to use an EV on a long trip. That is evident.
American EV owners still avoiding long road trips despite better infrastructure says transport expert
Electric vehicles (EVs) are now becoming a common sight on American roads, with sales continuing to climb year on year and charging stations appearing in more locations with newer EV...
www.renewableenergymagazine.com
I drove 6,000 miles across the US in an EV. Here's what I learned
It takes some planning, but a cross-country trip in an electric vehicle is completely doable. Here's how.
thedriven.io
QP!
Verified User
I'm sure a percent of people still have things like range anxiety because they have not taken the time to learn about the charging options on any given route.I'm saying few people are willing to use an EV on a long trip. That is evident.
American EV owners still avoiding long road trips despite better infrastructure says transport expert
Electric vehicles (EVs) are now becoming a common sight on American roads, with sales continuing to climb year on year and charging stations appearing in more locations with newer EV...www.renewableenergymagazine.com
I drove 6,000 miles across the US in an EV. Here's what I learned
It takes some planning, but a cross-country trip in an electric vehicle is completely doable. Here's how.
But there are apps and web sites for that. Again you would struggle to give me a starting and end point in the US that I couldn't just put in the EV trip planner and not see a ton of easy access chargers.
If you doubt it name a starting city/state and end city/state and I will show you how easy it is and how wrong you are.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
In the western half of the US there are usually few charging options. Most of those states and routes are sparsely populated and little more than open land.
Okay, Las Cruces NM to Socorro NM, then via US 60 to Datil NM and onto Springerville AZ to Show Low AZ, to Payson AZ, to Phoenix. I've driven that in one day in my truck. Do it in an EV.
QP!
Verified User
Like I said, you will have to go out of your way to pick from a select few spots in a select few States were it would be a bit of a challenge. Of the VAST number of cities and states only a tiny percent would be any issue.
Like I said, name your starting and end points and I will prove you wrong or show you are picking obscure, low travel areas to begin with.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
How many more like that do you need? Try this one, all within Arizona:
Phoenix to Wickenburg, to Salome, to Parker to the Nellie E Desert Bar (Saloon) to Oatman, to Kingman, to Seligman then take the Williamson Valley Road to Prescott and return to Phoenix via I 17. I'll give you three days. It took me two in my truck, and that wasn't even pushing it at all.
Even just driving Phoenix to Las Vegas via US 93 would be difficult in an EV.
QP!
Verified User
Right. So the Ai says this trip is very doable with planning with only Datil (town of 50 people) and SpringerVille (1700 people) needing some advanced planning so as i said, you will PURPOSELY have to direct the road trips thru some very remote areas to make it a challenge.
The vast, VAST majority of people driving would not be taking this route and having an EV would be no issue for them. for the less than 1% who do take this type of regularly, yes an ICE or hybrid EV/ICE would be better.
This route makes my point. You have to WORK to put together parts of the routes passing thru no where when there are other options.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
You trust AI to get it right? There are no charging stations along virtually that entire route you know. That means level 1 charging at best.
Your appeal to popularity does nothing to bolster your argument for EV's. Why should someone be forced to use a particular route because they have been forced into an EV? That's essentially what those advocating for an end to ICE vehicles would do. It's a tyranny of the masses. ICE vehicles dominated exactly because they gave people far more degrees of freedom than EV's did. That was as true in 1920 as it is today.
QP!
Verified User
This the same as above with AI saying it is a doable route with only Socorro and Show Low being challenging, again due to routing thru remote tiny towns with no people.
So just as with the prior you can only say 'to the Americans who must include in these long road trips a route thru tiny remote towns an EV would not be best for you', and you are talking about a tiny percent (less than 1% for sure) who are on various road trips all across the US and who NEED to go route thru those small towns as opposed to taking options to avoid them.
And i am not knocking people who want to road trip thru remote small towns, more power to them. I have always said EV's are not for everyone just as ICE Pickup truck is not, just as an ICE compact car or sports car is not.
The question is can these vehicles (Ev, ICE Pickup Ice Compact, Ice sports car) serve a majority or very large percent of the population, and that answer is YES.
What you do every time we have this discussion is try to find an area EV's are not yet good in to then say "EVS are just not good for the general public yet other than in a very limited way' and that simply is not the truth. For the vast, VAST majority of americans they could own an EV now and do all of their current driving and never have an issue as MOST would not be going to the remote areas EV's struggle in.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
How many days would that route take?
EV's have too many drawbacks to make them the popular choice for people. If that wasn't true, EV's would already dominate the market. So far, the only way they've even made any significant inroads anywhere is by a combination of government subsidy, bribery, and totalitarian fiat. That is, the manufacturers are propped up heavily by tax money. The buyers are given big tax breaks or subsidies to buy one, and finally, the government simply makes alternatives illegal.
California is set to do exactly that, and it's going to be a major fail for them when the plan is fully implemented.
QP!
Verified User
The AI says it can provide a list of the charging stations in a maps format, so yes i trust it.
I am not making an appeal to popularity. I am pointing out the stupidity of your arguments.
ICE pick up trucks are not good in most dense cities for most families but i would not then say 'pickups are not practical yet'. Small sports cars and some econoboxes are not good for big families or many rural areas but i would not then say they are not practical yet.
That IS NOT how a vehicles utility is determined.
If you took the vast, VAST percent of American families and looked at where they drive in any given year it would only be a tiny percent who would go on the routes you have to create to find it a challenge. 99% of their yearly driving would easily be accommodated by an EV.
I know a lot of people with big ass pickups who hate coming downtown in my city as the streets tight and parking spots are small, but that does not mean pickups are not good yet because i could create routes thru the downtown they would really struggle with and i can they should be able to take whatever route other vehicles and not be forced to move around the downtown on specific routes.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
In the neighborhood I live in, there are I'd say about maybe a half dozen Teslas. But on every one of those driveways there's also an SUV or pick up truck. The EV is a commuter car that owner can afford as a second or third car. For everything else, they're using those ICE alternatives because an EV simply won't work.
If they had to choose between one or the other, the EV would certainly go and the SUV or truck stay.
As for downtowns... In the Phoenix metro area downtowns are generally deserts after 6 pm when the government employees go home. Nobody goes downtown for much of anything as there isn't much of anything to go there for unless you are dealing with government.
QP!
Verified User
EVs have almost no limitations thus why you have to have craft routes into remote areas with cities of 50 to a few hundred people.
That is really the only limitation you can create and I've always said remote towns are their challenge.
I can play that game with all sorts of ICE vehicles by pointing at the things they are not good at and like you then say the whole segment is not good.
But the FACT remains that for the vast majority of the driving Americans do an EV would work extremely well for them. Just exclude that tiny percent who need or want to go to remote tiny small towns.
QP!
Verified User
Here is the final point you cannot refute.
the vast majority of people in America live in cities with good infrastructure that easily supports EV use.
Of that vast majority only a tiny percent will NEED or WANT to drive the very rural routes you can hand craft to make an EV struggle, and ALL THE ELSE, can use an EV with no issues.