Rationing and long lines

The same thing happens in the UK with the shortages. That's unacceptable.

Thanks for the info, doll.

Is the current rationing we have in the USA acceptable then?
We ration based on what you can afford.

If you are working poor with no health insurance your radiation treatment is rationed out of existance. Better to wait a bit or get none at all?

Of course you can trade your families home for the treatments.
 
The same thing happens in the UK with the shortages. That's unacceptable.

Thanks for the info, doll.

"In addition, there are well-documented shortages of many cancer care providers across Canada. The Canadian Association of Provincial Cancer Agencies has identified significant numbers of vacant positions in radiation and medical oncology, medical physics and radiation therapy."

Why would they have a shortage?
I mean since the system is so fair, both to the patient and the Medical Personal, you would think that they would have all manner of professionals just lining up to be part of such a wonderful system.
 
I love it when morons like you bray your opinion based on generalizations. Here, FYI http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Medical_Research/Salary

It's called an allotment, you willfully ignorant neocon parrot! Federal budgets, as well as private enterprise budgets, allot X amount of money for various projects. The budget INCLUDES various items...salary is one of them. So if a huge chunk of the budget is alloted for salaries, then everything else gets a smaller piece of the pie. It's just like your weekly salary.....you get a check and then you apply it to your budget...how much money alloted for groceries, how much for utility bills, how much for personal entertainment. These are basics for anyone who actually draws an salary and keeps a check book.....but evidently you need a refresher course in life 101.
You need to research how government grants work. And your post of salary levels has nothing to do with government grants. So those who work for the feds, on average, make higher salaries. Where does that compare funds spent on medical research expenses other than salaries? Ditto the article on Dr. Offit you posted, which is about him misusing his position on the CDC. Where is that an indicator of the norm for compensation of the creator of a vaccine? Where is the comparison to funds spent on medical research equipment, facilities, consumables, aqnd other research related expenses? The promotion of the sale of a DEVELOPED vaccine isn't even about research - it's about using a government position to sell his own product. Remember, you claim that MOST of medical research money is spent on salaries. And then when I call you a liar, I am the one who is supposed to DISPROVE your claim? LOL You really are a twit, aren't you? And a fucking liar to boot. (Either than or the most pathetically ignorant twit in the history of political debate.)

Why is it braindead, functionally illiterates like you think you can post any piece of garbage information you can come up with and think people will accept that it backs up the lying drivel your trying to shove up people's asses? Are you so totally and hopelessly illiterate that you do not even understand what it is you are linking to? Or is it you think people don't actually go to and read the links you provide? Or are you so narcissistic you think others cannot comprehend the level of utter and total BS you are shoveling?

As stated above - you are pathetic. You cannot read with ANY reasonable level of comprehension. My 6 year old granddaughter can read with a better comprehension level that you can. You post idiot links with stories about salaries, and claim that proves that most money is spent on salaries than other research expenses. You point out a case of corruption in which a doctor uses his position in CDC to push a rotavirus vaccine (which he happened to be a major contributor in developing, BTW, making him a medical hero for the thousands of children his vaccine is saving every year) as if it is an indicator of normal compensation for inventors of new medical treatments.

Like I said earlier, your posts "stand" like a popcorn fart in a stiff wind.
 
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The same thing happens in the UK with the shortages. That's unacceptable.

Thanks for the info, doll.

I agree more money needs to be put into the system but it is better than a "Pay or Suffer" system because some people will never receive the proper treatment in a "Pay or Suffer" system because they can't afford it.

Also, it is not just the radiation treatments. The individual counselling, the group sessions and all the other things associated with cancer treatment are free. The worry over money is removed. Money is never an issue and there are few things worse than worrying over financial problems.

How are people expected to get well when their medical costs means they have to take money out of their children's education funds? Or they return from a radiation treatment to find a repossession notice on their front door because the mortgage funds were used to pay the doctor/hospital? Or an older person near retirement depleting their life savings?

They say a person's mental attitude, an optimistic outlook on life, has a lot to do with recovery. What optimism will a person have who realizes if they survive a major illness they'll live out their remaining years in poverty?

That has to be changed first. The plan can be adjusted and tweaked from time to time but the first thing that has to be done is to remove the financial worry.

As opposed as you are to a universal system I know you have compassion for others because, deep down inside under that tough exterior, you're a sweetheart. Unfortunately, the only way to help others is to have a universal system.
 
I agree more money needs to be put into the system but it is better than a "Pay or Suffer" system because some people will never receive the proper treatment in a "Pay or Suffer" system because they can't afford it.

Also, it is not just the radiation treatments. The individual counselling, the group sessions and all the other things associated with cancer treatment are free. The worry over money is removed. Money is never an issue and there are few things worse than worrying over financial problems.

How are people expected to get well when their medical costs means they have to take money out of their children's education funds? Or they return from a radiation treatment to find a repossession notice on their front door because the mortgage funds were used to pay the doctor/hospital? Or an older person near retirement depleting their life savings?

They say a person's mental attitude, an optimistic outlook on life, has a lot to do with recovery. What optimism will a person have who realizes if they survive a major illness they'll live out their remaining years in poverty?

That has to be changed first. The plan can be adjusted and tweaked from time to time but the first thing that has to be done is to remove the financial worry.

As opposed as you are to a universal system I know you have compassion for others because, deep down inside under that tough exterior, you're a sweetheart. Unfortunately, the only way to help others is to have a universal system.

Even at multi thousands of dollars a pop, the initial radiation treatment is not instantaneous here either, although it isn't 8 weeks, which I question is the usual case elsewhere. Not knowing the source I can make no comment about its accuracy or if it is anecdotal. Radiation usually follows chemo treatment which takes months so one has quite a while to make arrangements with the radiologist if that is the sequence in this case. The more revealing stat would be the time between discovery and the first treatment whatever it may be, normally the initial surgery, followed by either chemo or radiation, usually both, chemo first.
Your paragraph 2 is right on. Support and non-medical aids are very important to a frightened patient who is left out there with little support from the industry to guide her through the muddle. Thank God for NOT FOR PROFIT internet support.
Even when one has insurance, continuing premiums, co-pays and brand drugs make the monetary aspect quite burdensome for most people and impossible for many more. I'll never forget my experience prior to my wife's first chemo when I went to the local CVS and was charged $397 for 3 nausea pills. After paying, I needed them more than my wife.
 
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I agree more money needs to be put into the system but it is better than a "Pay or Suffer" system because some people will never receive the proper treatment in a "Pay or Suffer" system because they can't afford it.

Also, it is not just the radiation treatments. The individual counselling, the group sessions and all the other things associated with cancer treatment are free. The worry over money is removed. Money is never an issue and there are few things worse than worrying over financial problems.

How are people expected to get well when their medical costs means they have to take money out of their children's education funds? Or they return from a radiation treatment to find a repossession notice on their front door because the mortgage funds were used to pay the doctor/hospital? Or an older person near retirement depleting their life savings?

They say a person's mental attitude, an optimistic outlook on life, has a lot to do with recovery. What optimism will a person have who realizes if they survive a major illness they'll live out their remaining years in poverty?

That has to be changed first. The plan can be adjusted and tweaked from time to time but the first thing that has to be done is to remove the financial worry.

As opposed as you are to a universal system I know you have compassion for others because, deep down inside under that tough exterior, you're a sweetheart. Unfortunately, the only way to help others is to have a universal system.
You are presupposing that your universal system is the only possible answer to the current problems. Our own history shows this to not be true. 60 or so years ago health care for the poor was not a big issue because society took care of it's own without government interference. There were free clinincs, run pro-bono by doctors and nurses in every city, and every rural doctor was expected - and did - commit themselves to a number of pro-bono hours of treatment.

Now a big factor in that kindd of infrastructure going the way of the dodo, does, as many would accuse, have to do with greed in our modern society. However, greed is not the only factor, nor the largest. Other factors include the rampant increase in litigation against doctors - even when they performed their services for free. (Which can also be attributed to greed - but not of the medical provider community, but of the medical client community.) And, of course, good old government regulations had to step in and require this, demand that, and legislate other things until running a free clinic was literally impossible to do through the old fashioned method of volunteer time and private donations.

From 1940-1990 private donations to free clinics increased substantially - far
greater than inflation rates, yet the expenses of running free clinics also far outpaced inflation - AND the rate of private donations. Government assistance was supposed to help, but in reality demanded so many conditions that the increased expenses to meet the conditions of any government monies often outpaced the amount of the grants themselves.

Like I have been saying: if we want REAL healthcare reform, we need to examine closely why the current system is not working. It is FAR more complex than to simply take the "people cannot afford it themselves, so the government has to take over" ideology as a lone truth. Especially when medical systems run by the government are anything but exemplary. Or has everyone forgotten the VA hospital scandals brought to light a scant couple of years ago?
 
I agree more money needs to be put into the system but it is better than a "Pay or Suffer" system because some people will never receive the proper treatment in a "Pay or Suffer" system because they can't afford it.

Also, it is not just the radiation treatments. The individual counselling, the group sessions and all the other things associated with cancer treatment are free. The worry over money is removed. Money is never an issue and there are few things worse than worrying over financial problems.

How are people expected to get well when their medical costs means they have to take money out of their children's education funds? Or they return from a radiation treatment to find a repossession notice on their front door because the mortgage funds were used to pay the doctor/hospital? Or an older person near retirement depleting their life savings?

They say a person's mental attitude, an optimistic outlook on life, has a lot to do with recovery. What optimism will a person have who realizes if they survive a major illness they'll live out their remaining years in poverty?

That has to be changed first. The plan can be adjusted and tweaked from time to time but the first thing that has to be done is to remove the financial worry.

As opposed as you are to a universal system I know you have compassion for others because, deep down inside under that tough exterior, you're a sweetheart. Unfortunately, the only way to help others is to have a universal system.

Awe, you are so sweet.

Do you know the break-down of the estimated uninsured in this country?








 
Even at multi thousands of dollars a pop, the initial radiation treatment is not instantaneous here either, although it isn't 8 weeks, which I question is the usual case elsewhere. Not knowing the source I can make no comment about its accuracy or if it is anecdotal. Radiation usually follows chemo treatment which takes months so one has quite a while to make arrangements with the radiologist if that is the sequence in this case. The more revealing stat would be the time between discovery and the first treatment whatever it may be, normally the initial surgery, followed by either chemo or radiation, usually both, chemo first.
Your paragraph 2 is right on. Support and non-medical aids are very important to a frightened patient who is left out there with little support from the industry to guide her through the muddle. Thank God for NOT FOR PROFIT internet support.
Even when one has insurance, continuing premiums, co-pays and brand drugs make the monetary aspect quite burdensome for most people and impossible for many more. I'll never forget my experience prior to my wife's first chemo when I went to the local CVS and was charged $397 for 3 nausea pills. After paying, I needed them more than my wife.

I received an email from a person who reads this thread. They wish to remain anonymous. They informed me the 8 week wait for treatment was for their body to heal after the operation.

It makes sense to me considering the radiation stops cells from growing and healthy cells are what's needed to grow after an operation in order to heal the incision and surrounding flesh where the tumor was removed.

As for the nausea pills I'd probably require smelling salts after fainting. HA!
 
You need to research how government grants work. And your post of salary levels has nothing to do with government grants. So those who work for the feds, on average, make higher salaries. Where does that compare funds spent on medical research expenses other than salaries? Ditto the article on Dr. Offit you posted, which is about him misusing his position on the CDC. Where is that an indicator of the norm for compensation of the creator of a vaccine? Where is the comparison to funds spent on medical research equipment, facilities, consumables, aqnd other research related expenses? The promotion of the sale of a DEVELOPED vaccine isn't even about research - it's about using a government position to sell his own product. Remember, you claim that MOST of medical research money is spent on salaries. And then when I call you a liar, I am the one who is supposed to DISPROVE your claim? LOL You really are a twit, aren't you? And a fucking liar to boot. (Either than or the most pathetically ignorant twit in the history of political debate.)

Why is it braindead, functionally illiterates like you think you can post any piece of garbage information you can come up with and think people will accept that it backs up the lying drivel your trying to shove up people's asses? Are you so totally and hopelessly illiterate that you do not even understand what it is you are linking to? Or is it you think people don't actually go to and read the links you provide? Or are you so narcissistic you think others cannot comprehend the level of utter and total BS you are shoveling?

As stated above - you are pathetic. You cannot read with ANY reasonable level of comprehension. My 6 year old granddaughter can read with a better comprehension level that you can. You post idiot links with stories about salaries, and claim that proves that most money is spent on salaries than other research expenses. You point out a case of corruption in which a doctor uses his position in CDC to push a rotavirus vaccine (which he happened to be a major contributor in developing, BTW, making him a medical hero for the thousands of children his vaccine is saving every year) as if it is an indicator of normal compensation for inventors of new medical treatments.

Like I said earlier, your posts "stand" like a popcorn fart in a stiff wind.


1) Here's a full view of all the pay list for medical research (averages). It was available had you READ the page I initially linked....I forget to pablum feed willfully ignorant neocons http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Medical_Research/Salary/show_all

2) Dr. Offit is an example of how research salaries can be abused. This quote "....He is also the recipient of a $350,000 grant from Merck for the vaccine’s development, a consultant to Merck Pharmaceuticals and, the icing on the cake, previously served as a member" demonstrates a serious conflict of interest...money that could have gone elsewhere to a more objective lab.

3) Here's an idea of the cost regarding equipment. Read both to draw a conclusion:

http://www.aibltd.com/

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/HealthPolicy/1767

4) Now in your next response, spare me the repeat of your moronic opinion-as-fact and childish diatribes. My whole point was to show salary guarantees do have an effect on budgets and funding...something you tried to trivialize or justify. Carry on, Kreskin.
 
1) Here's a full view of all the pay list for medical research (averages). It was available had you READ the page I initially linked....I forget to pablum feed willfully ignorant neocons http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Medical_Research/Salary/show_all

2) Dr. Offit is an example of how research salaries can be abused. This quote "....He is also the recipient of a $350,000 grant from Merck for the vaccine’s development, a consultant to Merck Pharmaceuticals and, the icing on the cake, previously served as a member" demonstrates a serious conflict of interest...money that could have gone elsewhere to a more objective lab.

3) Here's an idea of the cost regarding equipment. Read both to draw a conclusion:

http://www.aibltd.com/

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/HealthPolicy/1767

4) Now in your next response, spare me the repeat of your moronic opinion-as-fact and childish diatribes. My whole point was to show salary guarantees do have an effect on budgets and funding...something you tried to trivialize or justify. Carry on, Kreskin.
1) Here is your original claim with respect to salaries of medical researchers:
That is not wholly true....do some research and you'll see that budgets for research are MOSTLY taken up by the salaries for the researchers

Again, all you do is post the SALARIES of medical researchers. I pointed that out before, and all you do is repost it, clearly proving you are way beyond your level of comprehension. The claim is that MOST of the budgets for medical research go to salaries. Guess what, brainless - posting salaries does NOT show what the rest of the budget looks like, does it? A medical research facility could spend as much as 100 million dollars on salaries, but if their total budget is $1 billion dollars, then salaries would be only 10% of the budget. Your BALD FACED FUCKING LIE claims that salaries are above 50% of medical research budgets (hint-that what the word MOSTLY means, in case you don't know...). Prove it, or admit your are a fucking liar.

2) The example of Drr. Offit is an example of how someone in authority can misuse that authority to promote their own outside interests, which in this case was the doctor's vaccine. Had the doctor been able to promote and sell his vaccines without using his CDC authority, then there would be nothing wrong with the money generated by the sale of his vaccines.

3) http://www.aibltd.com/ Oh goody. A link to s REFURBISHED medical instruments outlet. What does that prove, brainless? I am not shopping for medical equipment. However I do know (through an acquaintance of mine) some of the costs of consumable items, such as disposable pipette tips (they run from about 20 cents each to about $1.50 each.) know how many thousands of disposable tips are used daily by a medium size lab? Know how many MILLIONS of tips are used daily by a large facility?

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHe...lthPolicy/1767: Do you read your own references, or is this another case of you not being able to comprehend what you read? The article is about increased spending in the area of medical research. It does not mention salaries. It does mention a shift in budgets spent on clinical trials, with less going to phase 3 trials, while the percentage of budgets for phsse 4 trials has doubled. (Which, BTW take up 39% of current research budgets BY THEMSELVES!!) Sorry, but you still have not proven your point, but only continue to show your reading comprehension abilities are substandard.

4) Carry on liar. Now you try to claim your point is that salaries affect the overall budget. True. What are researchers supposed to do, work for free? Even if they were paid minimum wage, salaries affect the rest of the budget. And unless you can prove that multi-million dollar salries result from anything except a successful introduction of a new medical treatment (ie: gets past phase 4 trials into mass production) then all your claims are still so much hogwash.

In short, you still have not shown research salaries to be 50% or greater of research budgets. You have not shown anyone who got rich of of a research salary. (Hint: Dr. Offit, regardless of how he sold his vaccine, still does not count because benefits from a successful invention is NOT a salary, nor does it come from research budgets.) This is YOUR claim, liar. Back it up or admit you lied.
 
I received an email from a person who reads this thread. They wish to remain anonymous. They informed me the 8 week wait for treatment was for their body to heal after the operation.

It makes sense to me considering the radiation stops cells from growing and healthy cells are what's needed to grow after an operation in order to heal the incision and surrounding flesh where the tumor was removed.

As for the nausea pills I'd probably require smelling salts after fainting. HA!
Your friend is correct. Our experience was with chemo followed by radiation. The chemo was over several months, I believe twice a week, the radiation took place daily for 33 days except Sundays.
I don't believe the number either which, for some reason, isn't sourced.
If 5 months into her chemotherapy, my wife met with the radiologist and was told to come for her first radiology appointment on a date after the chemo was completed 2 months later, would that be counted as waiting time or a delay by the source? It's my belief that it's but one more manipulated figure that the easily duped have swallowed.



Guess what, the pills didn't work. A placebo would have worked as well.
 
Your friend is correct. Our experience was with chemo followed by radiation. The chemo was over several months, I believe twice a week, the radiation took place daily for 33 days except Sundays.
I don't believe the number either which, for some reason, isn't sourced.
If 5 months into her chemotherapy, my wife met with the radiologist and was told to come for her first radiology appointment on a date after the chemo was completed 2 months later, would that be counted as waiting time or a delay by the source? It's my belief that it's but one more manipulated figure that the easily duped have swallowed.



Guess what, the pills didn't work. A placebo would have worked as well.

That's dangerous misinformation. You might convince others that you're right and lead to the death of good people.

Chemo is a cancer treatment. It's not perfect, but it works much better than placebo. This is backed up by decades of studies and experience. Without chemo, millions of people would have died. You are the person who is easily duped - easily duped by the conspiracy theorists.
 
That's dangerous misinformation. You might convince others that you're right and lead to the death of good people.

Chemo is a cancer treatment. It's not perfect, but it works much better than placebo. This is backed up by decades of studies and experience. Without chemo, millions of people would have died. You are the person who is easily duped - easily duped by the conspiracy theorists.

You missed the point, my fault.
Earlier I had mentioned a brand NAUSEA pill, not available in generic, that I filled for my wife prior to her first chemo. I expressed the reaction I had to the $397 price for 3 pills, not to her chemo treatment. The mentioned "placebo" referred to those 3 pills only.
That said, I swear by her doctors and her treatment which, thank God have been successful to this point. I recommend to everybody encountering the same problem to spend the time to investigate and find the best hospital and doctors for their treatment, not the most convenient. We ended up using the U of Fla. Shands Hospital, 50 miles away, but the smartest thing we could have done. We had an accidental first appointment with a surgeon from the wrong department who told us of the doctor he would go to if his wife had the same problem. We did and we thank God for sending us to the "wrong" doctor first. He was the chief surgeon of his speciality, ovarian cancer, he sent us(made the appointment) to the chief surgeon for breast problems, a marvelous young woman who, along with her medical skills, showed a degree of sensitivity we weren't expecting at a time when it was most needed.
By the way, back to topic, Shands is not for profit and the best in our area including the Mayo Clinic. An accident?
 
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What kind of benefits do you give your employees?

I only have 2 now. They have medical ins, paid holidays, and a free house (well nice modular) to live in. And oh a pickup to drive with me paying the expenses unless they take a personal trip and then they buy the gas.
Ohh and I am paying tuition for my handyman to take HVAC classes at the local technical college.

Not too bad huh?

They are my farm hand and his wife my housekeeper / cook.

I sold my company to my employees a while back.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
1) Here's a full view of all the pay list for medical research (averages). It was available had you READ the page I initially linked....I forget to pablum feed willfully ignorant neocons http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...alary/show_all

2) Dr. Offit is an example of how research salaries can be abused. This quote "....He is also the recipient of a $350,000 grant from Merck for the vaccine’s development, a consultant to Merck Pharmaceuticals and, the icing on the cake, previously served as a member" demonstrates a serious conflict of interest...money that could have gone elsewhere to a more objective lab.

3) Here's an idea of the cost regarding equipment. Read both to draw a conclusion:

http://www.aibltd.com/

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHe...lthPolicy/1767

4) Now in your next response, spare me the repeat of your moronic opinion-as-fact and childish diatribes. My whole point was to show salary guarantees do have an effect on budgets and funding...something you tried to trivialize or justify. Carry on, Kreskin.

1) Here is your original claim with respect to salaries of medical researchers:

That is not wholly true....do some research and you'll see that budgets for research are MOSTLY taken up by the salaries for the researchers


Again, all you do is post the SALARIES of medical researchers. I pointed that out before, and all you do is repost it, clearly proving you are way beyond your level of comprehension. The claim is that MOST of the budgets for medical research go to salaries. Guess what, brainless - posting salaries does NOT show what the rest of the budget looks like, does it? A medical research facility could spend as much as 100 million dollars on salaries, but if their total budget is $1 billion dollars, then salaries would be only 10% of the budget. Your BALD FACED FUCKING LIE claims that salaries are above 50% of medical research budgets (hint-that what the word MOSTLY means, in case you don't know...). Prove it, or admit your are a fucking liar.

You're repeating yourself, jackass.....which clearly demonstrates that unless someone pablum feeds you, you REFUSE to think. I gave you links that give you salaries because once you deduct ALL those related to a specific research project, THEN you begin to deciminate what's left over for everything else. I gave you links that show the actual costs of some equipment and then what's happening regarding rise in budgets and how that relates to research equipment, staff, etc. The competant reader looks at things comprehensively and draws a conclusion.....lazy blowhards like yourself wants it all layed out and simplistic. So once again, you keep trying to pass off your supposition and conjecture as fact WHILE IGNORING THE INFORMATION PROVIDED. Typical.

2) The example of Drr. Offit is an example of how someone in authority can misuse that authority to promote their own outside interests, which in this case was the doctor's vaccine. Had the doctor been able to promote and sell his vaccines without using his CDC authority, then there would be nothing wrong with the money generated by the sale of his vaccines. No genius, as the quotation I provided shows, Dr. Offit was also part of a research team. Now, as you did in grade school, match what this article states as his stipends/bonuses from various sources for his research, plus what I sourced as an average salary for what a man in his position gets. Not only is Dr. Offit in a conflict of interest regarding the research, but he is making a profits that damn near match his grants for research...of which he is a part of.....back to square one...Offit is an example of how his salary is a hefty percentage of monies alloted for a research project in whole (go back to the payless....it also covers bonuses).

3) http://www.aibltd.com/ Oh goody. A link to s REFURBISHED medical instruments outlet. What does that prove, brainless? I am not shopping for medical equipment. However I do know (through an acquaintance of mine) some of the costs of consumable items, such as disposable pipette tips (they run from about 20 cents each to about $1.50 each.) know how many thousands of disposable tips are used daily by a medium size lab? Know how many MILLIONS of tips are used daily by a large facility?

Once again, you shut your parrot like mind to the obvious......I gave this as an EXAMPLE of equipment cost. This is keeping in step with my original point......these items are not CHEAP....neither is the example given by YOU. Now, if you had read the article that points to rising budget costs, then to the salary listing I have for private and gov't researchers, their expenses, perks....you deduce that salaries are taking a pretty hefty chunk out of funding. See bunky, when money is allocated, say $1 billion, you have to ask yourself.....how many staff? Is the grant for 1 year? 2 years? 3? Is COLA factored in? Bonuses? Expenses? The paylist I gave you also is a guide of what you have to ADD to get a total picture of what a researcher would be paid. Once again, you factor this in with the ONE TIME cost of equipment or the cost of occasionally replenishing chemicals, micellaneous materials...and that lump sum dwindles real fast. Did you ever stop to ask yourself why some research projects are consistently asking for public donations when the major equipment is seldom replaced?

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHe...lthPolicy/1767: Do you read your own references, or is this another case of you not being able to comprehend what you read? The article is about increased spending in the area of medical research. It does not mention salaries. It does mention a shift in budgets spent on clinical trials, with less going to phase 3 trials, while the percentage of budgets for phsse 4 trials has doubled. (Which, BTW take up 39% of current research budgets BY THEMSELVES!!) Sorry, but you still have not proven your point, but only continue to show your reading comprehension abilities are substandard.

And How do you think the other 61% is divided up, mastermind? Especially if you factor in the TOTAL cost of staff salaries, as I indicated. What makes you think that salaries is NOT a major fraction of that 39%? Why don't you THINK before running off half assed? Comprehend ALL the material when you read, not just bits and parts (God, I'm tired of repeating this to willfully ignorant neocon parrots for almost a decade now).

4) Carry on liar. Now you try to claim your point is that salaries affect the overall budget. True. What are researchers supposed to do, work for free? Even if they were paid minimum wage, salaries affect the rest of the budget. And unless you can prove that multi-million dollar salries result from anything except a successful introduction of a new medical treatment (ie: gets past phase 4 trials into mass production) then all your claims are still so much hogwash.

See the above explanations, oh witless one. I never said anyone shouldn't get paid......the POINT I've been making is that salaries are THE primary reason for exhorbitant costs of medical research. Everything that you are wailing about requires staff that has to be paid....but the LEADING PHYSICIANS in the field get top dollar, bonuses, expenses. As I provided those salaries are a base......one can ASSUME that negotiations for COLA and such happen, but they sure as hell are not for LESS. And as the Offit example shows, there is always the possibility of conflict of interests where the extra money is made.

In short, you still have not shown research salaries to be 50% or greater of research budgets. You have not shown anyone who got rich of of a research salary. (Hint: Dr. Offit, regardless of how he sold his vaccine, still does not count because benefits from a successful invention is NOT a salary, nor does it come from research budgets.) This is YOUR claim, liar. Back it up or admit you lied.

In short, you just don't use your brain beyond your preconceived notions coupled with your supposition and conjecture. I've explained my position,and the objective reader will get the point. Those insipidly stubborn folk like yourself REFUSE to get the point.
 
In short, you just don't use your brain beyond your preconceived notions coupled with your supposition and conjecture. I've explained my position,and the objective reader will get the point. Those insipidly stubborn folk like yourself REFUSE to get the point.
The short side of it is, Twinky, you don't have shit. You show the prices of DISCOUNTED refurbished medical hardware. You do NOT show how much of that hardware is needed. You show salaries, but no comparison to the total budget.

You give one example of a Dr. who comes up with a SUCCESSFUL vaccine, and use the figures he receives for marketing said successful vaccine as an example of RESEARCH salaries. While I do not in any way condone his use of his position in CDC, the fact is what he received had to do with the marketing and sale of a successful product, NOT research.

You keep harping about how INFERENCE and CONJECTURE are meaningless, yet now you claim that is what is needed to draw your conclusions. Wrong answer, Twinky. You can know the prices of medical instruments. (Though if you were HONEST about it you would not be using refurbished equipment for your examples. But then, honesty is not something you use in debate, is it?) You can know the levels of salaries for researchers. But you do NOT know from those two pieces of information what portion of a total research budget is taken up by each.

And also, try looking up what phase 3 and phase 4 clinical trials are, and how they are conducted before showing your complete ignorance on the subject with lies about salaries being a big part of that expense. As to your question, the other 61% is spent on initial research, isolation trials, product development (a med won't work outside the lab if you can't mass produce it.) preliminary trials, phase 1 trials, and phase 2 trials.

As for repeating oneself, aren't you the one doing the repeating? Your sources have been thoroughly debunked as either irrelevant nonsense to your claim, or at best, incomplete data with no correlation. Yet you do not bother to come up with better data, all you do is claim I cannot read it properly. Try again, Twinky. I gave you SPECIFIC reasons why your data does not support your conclusions. The fact that you don't come up with better data simply strengthens the charge that you are an ignorant lying pissant.

But then, we already knew that, didn't we?
 
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