Rand Paul: Cut U.S. Aid to Israel

tom prendergast said:
If they are a true trading partner why is the US giving them $3 billion in military aid each year? Maybe Goldman Sachs could be asked to forgo their bank bonuses and give to Israel instead?
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maybe you should worry about your own government who has given over a 100 billion dollars in aid to israel
 
The country of Israel MUST exist for fundamentalist Christians view of the world to come to fruition. If the Jewish people do not control Jerusalem Revelation cannot be fulfilled. A large majority of rightwingers will only support politicians that support Israel. Falwell and Robertson talk a great deal about supporting Israel so the the battle of armageddon can come true.
 
Socrtease said:
The country of Israel MUST exist for fundamentalist Christians view of the world to come to fruition. If the Jewish people do not control Jerusalem Revelation cannot be fulfilled. A large majority of rightwingers will only support politicians that support Israel. Falwell and Robertson talk a great deal about supporting Israel so the the battle of armageddon can come true.
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seriously?
 
Socrtease said:
The country of Israel MUST exist for fundamentalist Christians view of the world to come to fruition. If the Jewish people do not control Jerusalem Revelation cannot be fulfilled. A large majority of rightwingers will only support politicians that support Israel. Falwell and Robertson talk a great deal about supporting Israel so the the battle of armageddon can come true.
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The United States should support Israel (a secular state) because they are morally superior to their neighboring countries, which over the past 30 - 40 years have slid into barbarism and superstition; not due to any belief in the prophecies contained in the book of Revelation.
 
Socrtease said:
The country of Israel MUST exist for fundamentalist Christians view of the world to come to fruition. If the Jewish people do not control Jerusalem Revelation cannot be fulfilled. A large majority of rightwingers will only support politicians that support Israel. Falwell and Robertson talk a great deal about supporting Israel so the the battle of armageddon can come true.
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There are numerous fundamentalist Christians who are not dispensational premillinialist's (that would be the end time adherer's you reference) The vast majority of Christians do not adhere to that escatological view (there are 3 other more historical and biblical escatological views) made culturally popular by Tim LaHaye and his "Left Behind" series----but it's not the only, nor the majority view, of end time escatologies.

To think that this fractional percentage of voters sways influence over our foreign policy with Israel is kooky-

Fundamentalism simply means to adhere to foundational principles.
 
Ice Dancer said:
There are numerous fundamentalist Christians who are not dispensational premillinialist's (that would be the end time adherer's you reference) The vast majority of Christians do not adhere to that escatological view (there are 3 other more historical and biblical escatological views) made culturally popular by Tim LaHaye and his "Left Behind" series----but it's not the only, nor the majority view, of end time escatologies.

To think that this fractional percentage of voters sways influence over our foreign policy with Israel is kooky-

Fundamentalism simply means to adhere to foundational principles.
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LOL. You're in denial. The christian zionist kooks are in fact running foreign policy based on their religious views. That's obvious.
 
CensoredRed said:
I'm leaving the Bush comment alone as you will never convince me and I will never convince you so it's pointless to keep going back and forth with 'yes, you did and no, you didn't'.

I did NOT attempt to compare anything. I said exactly what I meant. When we were discussing what made it okay for us to invade Iraq, many people used the reasoning that there were any number of UN sanctions against them. I simply pointed out that so did Israel and we have never said anything about that.
To me, it is a matter of this country always doing something hypocritical and then we sit on our perches staring down at the rest of the world tsking about how they need a democracy. I also think in most cases it comes back to bite us in the ass. We need to mind our business a bit more.
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This is a comparison...is it not?

"We griped and moaned and gnashed our teeth over the number of UN sanctions on Iraq but said not one peep over the HUGE number of sanctions against Israel"

What I pointed out is that the nature and kinds of sanctions are not equal so your comparison...err...whatever you want to call it- is specious.

How is our helping Israel and mainting a good trade partner, who likewise aids us as a strategic intelligence alliance, a bad thing? Seriously, you have not clearly supported your opinion with any actual facts.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Which church doesn't support israel? Lets start there.
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There are multiple numbers of churches who do not support Israel for the sake of supporting Israel. What I mean by this is that most bible believing, fundamentalist (adherents to the basics) churches are apolitical. They have no position at all!

That said, various members as individual voters, may have a lot of opinions some pro- some con. What the unchurched in their ignornace showcase in discussions like this, is that they only know the "rich and famous" Christians and suppose them to be THE voice for the rest- They are not- they are the few by comparison.
 
webbway said:
I would go even further and stop all foreign aid period.
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You mean military aid, which is the bulk of what America gives. Though the aid is really just arming American installed dictators around the world. In other words, its an investment. Not charity. Using tax payers money.

Israel is getting billions more then Egypt.

Israel has been a welfare state of the USA for quite some time. Some say it is the religious fanatics(Christian and Jew) behind the scene that are supporting Israel, since the Bible states the Jews must return to Israel for Jesus to come back.

Still. The Bible also states that the Jews must follow certain rules to remain on the land, or else they will be kicked out again. It seems the Jews are once again breaking the rules. Therefore their state should not be supported.

It is causing instability in the region.

If the American administration were serious about stopping Israel from building settlements, they would stop the cash flow, though the Israeli lobby is the strongest in America. Considering they run pretty much everything. Entertainment, media, legal system, health care, and especially finance, via the Federal Reserve.

It will be interesting to see how Rand Paul fairs against the powerful Jewish lobby. The ADL might start calling him anti-semetic.LOL
 
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CensoredRed said:
I'm leaving the Bush comment alone as you will never convince me and I will never convince you so it's pointless to keep going back and forth with 'yes, you did and no, you didn't'.

I did NOT attempt to compare anything. I said exactly what I meant. When we were discussing what made it okay for us to invade Iraq, many people used the reasoning that there were any number of UN sanctions against them. I simply pointed out that so did Israel and we have never said anything about that.
To me, it is a matter of this country always doing something hypocritical and then we sit on our perches staring down at the rest of the world tsking about how they need a democracy. I also think in most cases it comes back to bite us in the ass. We need to mind our business a bit more.
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Double standard is the American way it seems. Hypocracy is nothing new under the Sun.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Which church doesn't support israel? Lets start there.
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I'm going to wade in here and agree with AHZ, somewhat. The problems we see in the ME are largely due to misguided religious thinking maintained by most of the religious world and a fight over the small piece of land that is Jerusalem.

1. Any religion that believes in pre-millennialism completely is probably a huge supporter of Isreal and doesn't want Muslims to occupy the land because they believe that Christ will come back and reign from Jerusalem.

2. Any religion that believes in Mohammed doesn't want Israel to occupy the land because they believe that Mohammed will return one day and reign from...you guessed it, Jerusalem.

IMO both are completely wrong (starting with the decision made in the 40's to establish the nation of Israel) and and have caused much conflict and turmoil in that region for ..... for....well, let's just say for a long time.
 
leaningright said:
I'm going to wade in here and agree with AHZ, somewhat. The problems we see in the ME are largely due to misguided religious thinking maintained by most of the religious world and a fight over the small piece of land that is Jerusalem.

1. Any religion that believes in pre-millennialism completely is probably a huge supporter of Isreal and doesn't want Muslims to occupy the land because they believe that Christ will come back and reign from Jerusalem.

2. Any religion that believes in Mohammed doesn't want Israel to occupy the land because they believe that Mohammed will return one day and reign from...you guessed it, Jerusalem.

IMO both are completely wrong (starting with the decision made in the 40's to establish the nation of Israel) and and have caused much conflict and turmoil in that region for ..... for....well, let's just say for a long time.
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Actually? Muslims believe Jesus will return. Not their Prophet. Though they believe Jesus will rule based on Quranic Law.

And obviously Christians believe He will rule based on His(Jesus's) own words.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Actually? Muslims believe Jesus will return. Not their Prophet. Though they believe Jesus will rule based on Quranic Law.

And obviously Christians believe He will rule based on His(Jesus's) own words.
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See. everyone is fucked in the head. This is a dialectic designed by aliens to keep the world in a constant state of theocratic dementia. It's theocratic brainwash, which is only cursorily "separated from the state". It doesn't need to be overtly stated in state policy when it's implanted in everybody's crazy mind.
 
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leaningright said:
I'm going to wade in here and agree with AHZ, somewhat. The problems we see in the ME are largely due to misguided religious thinking maintained by most of the religious world and a fight over the small piece of land that is Jerusalem.

1. Any religion that believes in pre-millennialism completely is probably a huge supporter of Isreal and doesn't want Muslims to occupy the land because they believe that Christ will come back and reign from Jerusalem.

2. Any religion that believes in Mohammed doesn't want Israel to occupy the land because they believe that Mohammed will return one day and reign from...you guessed it, Jerusalem.

IMO both are completely wrong (starting with the decision made in the 40's to establish the nation of Israel) and and have caused much conflict and turmoil in that region for ..... for....well, let's just say for a long time.
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The discussion did not begin due to adherents to a fairly modern notion on escatology. It began becuse it was postulated that "Christians" are creating foreign policy with Israel due to end times escatology. I pointed out that it is a minority of Christians who hold that particular end time view and asked for some kind of proof that this rather marginalized group have driven ME policy in Israel.

Do you have any fact based information to share on that?
 
Ice Dancer said:
The discussion did not begin due to adherents to a fairly modern notion on escatology. It began becuse it was postulated that "Christians" are creating foreign policy with Israel due to end times escatology. I pointed out that it is a minority of Christians who hold that particular end time view and asked for some kind of proof that this rather marginalized group have driven ME policy in Israel.

Do you have any fact based information to share on that?
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http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/washington/14israel.html
 
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