Rand Paul: Cut U.S. Aid to Israel

Socrtease said:
To a lesser degree yes, it is do to end times escatology. Maybe even more now. Israel is no longer as valuable an ally in that region. Back when the Soviet Union held sway with Arab nations yes, but now not so much.
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So our government has made foreign aid decisions with Israel because of end times escatology? Is that what are you saying?

Israel is still a valuable ally in the ME-
 
Lets cut military aid to all countries except iraq, afganistan and pakistan. Military aid is expensive.
 
Ice Dancer said:
So our government has made foreign aid decisions with Israel because of end times escatology? Is that what are you saying?

Israel is still a valuable ally in the ME-
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I believe he's said it two or three times now.

Israel is a valuable ally in crafting the region to israel's liking, if that's what you mean by ally.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I hardly think so Red. US foreign AID to ALL nations amounts to around $25 billion dollars. Our Military budget alone is over ten time that. That was less then a months spending during the Iraq war.
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I read a report here: http://www.wrmea.com/component/cont...rect-us-aid-to-israel-almost-114-billion.html

They used to have a counter at the top showing the amount of aid given but it's not there anymore.

I guess I have some more research to do before I go trying to act like I know it all. :)
 
Ice Dancer said:
So are you stating that US policy in Israel is because of end times escatology?

We have supprted Israel because they are a friendly power in an unfriendly part of the world.
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Yes, but has that helped us? Really? Because I believe our continued support of Israel has contributed to the animosity of the middle east towards us. We griped and moaned and gnashed our teeth over the number of UN sanctions on Iraq but said not one peep over the HUGE number of sanctions against Israel. It's hypocrisy.
And did Israel help in Bush's War on (oil)Terror?
 
CensoredRed said:
Yes, but has that helped us? Really? Because I believe our continued support of Israel has contributed to the animosity of the middle east towards us. We griped and moaned and gnashed our teeth over the number of UN sanctions on Iraq but said not one peep over the HUGE number of sanctions against Israel. It's hypocrisy.
And did Israel help in Bush's War on (oil)Terror?
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So we should stop being nice to Israel so that others won't hate us...great motive~

The types and kinds of snactions differed greatly-

Israel's continued help as a strategic intelligence alliance has helped us in Iraq; Turkey; Iran; etc etc etc...

The Bush snipe is stupid.
 
AssHatZombie said:
I believe he's said it two or three times now.

Israel is a valuable ally in crafting the region to israel's liking, if that's what you mean by ally.
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We have had a mutual back scratching with Israel-no doubt. If what he is saying is our motive or even part of our motive to trade with Israel is due to end time escatology, he's kooky.
 
Ice Dancer said:
So we should stop being nice to Israel so that others won't hate us...great motive~

The types and kinds of snactions differed greatly-

Israel's continued help as a strategic intelligence alliance has helped us in Iraq; Turkey; Iran; etc etc etc...

The Bush snipe is stupid.
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The Bush snipe is true. No, not just so others won't hate us. But, how about so we can practise the ideals we like to foist on other countries? How about so we don't continuously have to be viewed as utter hypocrites? How about taking a real look at the list of sanctions? True, Iraq was historically worse in terms of behavior but Israel is not always warm and fuzzy, either. And yet, we have consistently vetoed sanctions against Israel when they were clearly wrong.
 
CensoredRed said:
The Bush snipe is true. No, not just so others won't hate us. But, how about so we can practise the ideals we like to foist on other countries? How about so we don't continuously have to be viewed as utter hypocrites? How about taking a real look at the list of sanctions? True, Iraq was historically worse in terms of behavior but Israel is not always warm and fuzzy, either. And yet, we have consistently vetoed sanctions against Israel when they were clearly wrong.
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No, the Bush snipe is not true-

What "ideals" are we not living up to by being a trading partner with Israel? BTW, Israel is not our "only" trading partner in the ME-just one of our largest. No one said Israel is without faults-You though attempted to compare the sanctions on Israel to those that had been on Iraq (Saddam) they are not equal comparisons.
 
This is where I must part ways with Rand Paul. While I'm okay with cutting foreign aid by 20 - 30% (along with all other Federal spending), Israel is a crucial ally in the middle east and it's in our best interests to continue supporting them. Same applies to South Korea and Republic of China (Taiwan).
 
Ice Dancer said:
No, the Bush snipe is not true-

What "ideals" are we not living up to by being a trading partner with Israel? BTW, Israel is not our "only" trading partner in the ME-just one of our largest. No one said Israel is without faults-You though attempted to compare the sanctions on Israel to those that had been on Iraq (Saddam) they are not equal comparisons.
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If they are a true trading partner why is the US giving them $3 billion in military aid each year? Maybe Goldman Sachs could be asked to forgo their bank bonuses and give to Israel instead?
 
Ice Dancer said:
No, the Bush snipe is not true-

What "ideals" are we not living up to by being a trading partner with Israel? BTW, Israel is not our "only" trading partner in the ME-just one of our largest. No one said Israel is without faults-You though attempted to compare the sanctions on Israel to those that had been on Iraq (Saddam) they are not equal comparisons.
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I'm leaving the Bush comment alone as you will never convince me and I will never convince you so it's pointless to keep going back and forth with 'yes, you did and no, you didn't'.

I did NOT attempt to compare anything. I said exactly what I meant. When we were discussing what made it okay for us to invade Iraq, many people used the reasoning that there were any number of UN sanctions against them. I simply pointed out that so did Israel and we have never said anything about that.
To me, it is a matter of this country always doing something hypocritical and then we sit on our perches staring down at the rest of the world tsking about how they need a democracy. I also think in most cases it comes back to bite us in the ass. We need to mind our business a bit more.
 
Threedee said:
Red, should we also sever commercial ties to nations like China, because the government doesn't live up to our ideals?
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I don't believe we were discussing commercial ties. We (or at least I) were discussing aid to Israel.

We can't sever commercial ties. That would be disastrous.
 
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