Nothing, they are my opinions based in experience. (Shoot, you only need to look at the past year to see the graft, it isn't like I'm stretching back to the 1970s).
Ramming healthcare thru via reconciliation?
- Thread starter Chapdog
- Start date
Rubbish. Unlike the foolish republicans, the Ds decided not to "share" chair seats (smartly) because of the "slim majority." They then took a heavy hand towards the Rs and took control of the Senate. In short they acted like they won (again smartly). This caused the Rs to use the only power they had left, the filibuster.
I personally believe that the Ds did this so they could say, "Party of No"...
The "better at marketing" is silly. If they were actually better at marketing they would never have hit superminority status.
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The Almighty
Those were attempted filibusters as well. I believe we were engaging in a discussion about the frequency of use of the filibuster. If you compare the frequency of use when the Democrats were in the minority with the frequency of use with the Republicans in the minority you will see that the Republicans use the filibuster far far more often than the Democrats and far far more often than any time in recent history. Here's a chart:
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/reference/cloture_motions/clotureCounts.htm
funny, but it looks like the motions for cloture ramped up during the 1990's when both parties had control, but things were becoming more and more partisan. The more bitter the partisan divide, the greater the number of motions.
yes, the last few years have been almost double... but given the scope of the crap that is coming out of the 'leadership', it is no wonder the number goes up.
Also, I again ask... when you look at the votes, many of the same bill come up over and over again and are counted multiple times. If someone keeps trying to ram through the same piece of crap and expects different results, then they are morons. The Senate was designed so that there would be a check and balance against the Representative House. That way the more heavily populated states could not run rough shod over the rest.
Exactly, the more partisan the greater the motions. The actions of those who hold the majority drive the actions of the minority.
I'm talking about 2006-2008. Look at the fucking chart:
See that huge spike on the right-hand side? That's the Republican minority use of the filibuster from 2006-08 while they were an ordinary minority party while a Republican was president. The filibuster was not the only power they Republicans had left. If shitty bills passed, the president could veto them.
And after the 2008 elections the Republicans broke their own filibuster records. They are just plain obstructionist. That's it. End of story.
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The Almighty
I see your masters have provided you with your talking points. I must admit, you are a good little parrot. Do they put cheese on your crackers?
The chart only shows use of the filibuster through 2008 and does not show the use of the filibuster since the Democrats took control of the House, Senate and presidency.
Ask him how much he gets paid for it, then repeat it as if it was a salient point.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
Glove sniffer: Reconciliation is used for budget issues where there is otherwise agreement, not something as massively intrusive and contentious as health care.
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The Almighty
I'm talking about 2006-2008. Look at the fucking chart:
See that huge spike on the right-hand side? That's the Republican minority use of the filibuster from 2006-08 while they were an ordinary minority party while a Republican was president. The filibuster was not the only power they Republicans had left. If shitty bills passed, the president could veto them.
And after the 2008 elections the Republicans broke their own filibuster records. They are just plain obstructionist. That's it. End of story.
Let me guess, because you found a chart that looked like a hockey stick you automatically shouted 'consensus' and 'the debate is closed'?
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
In other words, what I say destroys your argument, therefore you ignore it.
A cute comment, but what is your rationale as to why the current Congress is on track to break the filibuster record by a fairly wide margin?
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The Almighty
yes, I know... which is why I provided a link to show what had occurred SINCE then you moron.
My screen also didn't pull up your chart... thus, I also wanted others to have access to the data in case that was happening to them as well.
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The Almighty
Again, as I stated, I think the country has become increasingly partisan. Take a look back when the numbers started ramping up... it was throughout the 1990s that it increased. As the bitterness increased between the two parties, so did the number of motions. It is fairly easy to look back and see, right about the time the Reps were hammering hard at Clinton, the Dems increased the use.
I agree that since the Dems took control in 2007 it ramped up even further. From 2009 on it makes sense as it IS the only power the Reps have at this time to stop the bills they do not like.
I also point out that when we look at the numbers from Dungs chart or from the data I presented, it does not tell us if cloture was used to stop a filibuster or if it was used to stop amendments from being added (which is also a reason for cloture).
For example...
Oct 29 H.R.3548 Unemployment Compensation Extension Act of 2009
Three times it was brought up (because of amendments to it?) on a motion of cloture. All three times the final vote was at least 85 in favor. Those three are not likely due to filibuster attempts, but rather to stop amendments from being latched on.
Conversely, if we look at
Dec 19 H.R.3590 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act
Four times it was brought up on a motion for cloture. Three of those times on Dec 19, one on Dec 17th. All those were more along the 60-40 split. those were likely filibusters being broken.
Well, they just did!