Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
So you are the only one that can create straw men?
Raise The Minimum Wage!
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
- Start date
So you are the only one that can create straw men?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
"they are already demanding all that they possibly can." ~Rune (circa 30 minutes ago)
Not seeing it, perhaps you could clarify?
Show where I have created a strawman.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
posts 49 and 51
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Well, it's pretty simple, even you should understand, you wrote it.
If they are already demanding all they possibly can, how are they going to ever get a raise?
When and if the employer deems it needed, and not before, regardless of what happens to the minimum wage.
LOL, so now me asking you to prove the validity of your stawmen is me creating strawmen?
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
I did not create a strawman, nor did I state what you suggested I did. Do you even know what a strawman is?
I think it was the first post in this thread. Where you claimed that "So prices only rise when Minimum Wage is raised?"
Pretty much any question you start with "so" is a strawman. It's an interesting phenomena on boards, but it is a good rule of thumb.
christiefan915
Catalyst
This is such baloney it's embarrassing. First of all, cons say that minimum wage workers should train for a skill that pays better. Guess what, it happens all the time. How many people do you know who spent their entire working life behind the Burger King counter? Fast food outlets, mini marts, Wal-Marts, etc. have a revolving door of employees and no matter how many come and go, the store itself is still going to be there, it's still going to pay the lowest wage allowable and it's still going to complain about the caliber of the employees it hires.
Then you have the senior citizens who take those minimum wage jobs. Seniors were born and raised during the depression or WWII years. It wasn't considered a come-down for men to go straight from high school into a manufacturing job... auto, steel, coal, etc. Those were middle-class jobs when we had a thriving middle class and college degrees weren't the price of admission into the working world. And, women born in that era weren't expected to work outside the home. Raising children and being a homemaker was an honorable profession in itself, in fact, many women who worked outside the home were looked down on. It's funny that conservatives long for a return to the good old days, well, these were the good old days.
The words "school choice" in the good old days meant you decided whether to send your kid to public or parochial school. No vouchers, no cyber-schooling.
And I dispute your comment that liberals want people stuck on welfare. Obviously liberal don't want them stuck, ergo the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, signed into law by none other than the liberal Bill Clinton. Most on welfare use it as a temporary stop gap when they've reached rock bottom, and plenty of those who did because of the recession of 2008 are conservatives. Wonder how many red-state citizens turn down government aid when they have no money coming in and mouths to feed?
Conservative arguments against the needy just kill me. Life can't be boiled down to a few simple phrases and naive prescriptions on how people could easily fix their problems "if only they ________________________." It's another illustration of my theory about blaming the victim. No connie on this thread showed an ounce of compassion for people who fall on hard times.
cawacko
Well-known member
You can have compassion for people who have fallen on hard times as I hope most would but it still doesn't change the economic realities of what raising the minimum wage does in the marketplace.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
I know it happens all the time. No one suggested it wasn't happening. We are saying you don't need to raise the minimum wage BECAUSE they are able to move up in wage as they gain skill. There is no justification for raising an unskilled position.
Nothing is stopping Seniors from gaining new skill sets.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is liberals that want to force everyone into public schools rather than provide people with a choice who otherwise would not be able to afford the choice. You want to keep the poor subjugated via the piss poor public schools you give to them.
No one suggested that everyone on welfare would stay there. Many do fight there way off. But it is the design of the system that keeps one generation after another stuck. Add in the piss poor public schools in poor neighborhoods and you just add yet another road block for the poor to overcome in order to escape. But you liberals want that. You want them dependent on the government.
I am all for giving people a hand up when they get knocked down. But when you help someone up and they choose to sit back down, there my compassion ends. That is why liberals like the permanent poor, because they can get votes based on providing eternal freebies. Yet they do not care about actually educating the poor to overcome the bad hand they were dealt.
It goes back to the adage... 'you can give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, if you teach a man to fish, he will eat for a lifetime'
You want to give the fish. I want to teach him to fish. That is the difference between liberals and conservatives.
Chad Stone, chief economist of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, wrote in a statement that the economy really needs to add more than twice as many jobs per month to have a robust recovery:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...o-300000-jobs-per-month-for-a-robust-recovery
you're not going to get more jobs, or increses in pay, until there is demand for goods and services. I'm as compassionate as possible, doesn't mean a darn thing in the marketplace.
I work here, in a virtual home office:
we keep getting pay cuts, higher metrics ( sales performance, etc.) and guess what? Ppl are banging at the door to get in.
Nothing unusual, ppl are banging at a lot of doors - the point is until you see more demand for labor, the middle class ( and the minimum wage) cannot get any job security, or increses in pay.
There is always someone willing to work for less -we created 80.000 jobs in June -pathetic, and gawd only knows the number of underemployed.
This is still a recession -i'll leave the politics out of it ( for those whom think either Obama or Romney is more capable of creating jobs).
But until we get more demand for goods and services -which create demand for more labor, hold onto what you got. Hopefuly you won't get reduced hours or pay cuts.
I doubt most of us have seen raises - i'm sure some of us have, but nationally ( and global) there isn't going to be any more demand till we work thru this recession.
I work here, in a virtual home office:
we keep getting pay cuts, higher metrics ( sales performance, etc.) and guess what? Ppl are banging at the door to get in.
Nothing unusual, ppl are banging at a lot of doors - the point is until you see more demand for labor, the middle class ( and the minimum wage) cannot get any job security, or increses in pay.
There is always someone willing to work for less -we created 80.000 jobs in June -pathetic, and gawd only knows the number of underemployed.
This is still a recession -i'll leave the politics out of it ( for those whom think either Obama or Romney is more capable of creating jobs).
But until we get more demand for goods and services -which create demand for more labor, hold onto what you got. Hopefuly you won't get reduced hours or pay cuts.
I doubt most of us have seen raises - i'm sure some of us have, but nationally ( and global) there isn't going to be any more demand till we work thru this recession.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Do you believe we can increase the number of jobs available by increasing the minimum wage?
of course not. I just posted about needing more demand for goods and services, which is the only thing that increases wages in this global economy.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I don't agree with you about demand for goods and services, I think demand is there, we have a lack of capital investment. But we do agree, increasing the cost of labor is probably not a good idea for creating new jobs, correct? Because, really... before we can begin to ultimately crawl our way out of this, we have to focus on doing things that CREATE jobs, not kill them in the private sector. If people don't have jobs, there can't be any demand, there is no money. That would involve extracting your fangs from the neck of corporations, for the most part.
"close enough for rock and roll", agreed.
Why the lack of capital investment? plenty of tax breaks -what else could it be but lack of demand?
No factory is gonna upgrade, no industry is going to improve ( unless mandated by law) - i just think (IMHO) it's a simple supply and demand curve.
It's more complex with globalization - the US economy is not a stand alone, but that is the root.
Show how a question is a claim.