President Trump calls for 'mentally deranged' Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib to 'be institutionalized' for SOTU antics

T. A. Gardner said:
Yea, sure. Trump has a lot of negatives, but being "the lowest IQ person ever to be elected president" isn't one of them.

For example during his speech last night, at one point he said,

"If you agree with this statement, then stand up and show your support: The first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens, not illegal aliens..."

That was brilliant. Not a single Democrat rose. It was a perfect dilemma question. It put the Democrats in a bind. Stand and applaud with Trump or sit and show America you don't give a shit about American citizens. Democrats chose to sit. They hate Trump that much. That isn't "low IQ," it's political savvy and brilliant.

Of course, the Democrats likely won't pay much of a price for that as their base hates Trump equally, so they don't care about anything else.
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It was stupid. It was like he said "stand up and show your support if you stopped beating your spouse." No liberal thinks the government is protecting undocumented aliens over American citizens. That's just trump throwing red meat to his toadies, and you and they eat it right up.
 
christiefan915 said:
It was stupid. It was like he said "stand up and show your support if you stopped beating your spouse." No liberal thinks the government is protecting undocumented aliens over American citizens. That's just trump throwing red meat to his toadies, and you and they eat it right up.
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My bet is that clip showing some Democrat sitting will get played in a few months during the mid-term campaign season and more vulnerable Democrats running for office will be doing everything they can to walk it back and deny participation.

Also, it wasn't a complex question fallacy, but rather a straightforward question Trump and his speech writers knew the Democrats would answer just as they did. Their hatred of Trump outweighed everything else, and they paid the price for that.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
My bet is that clip showing some Democrat sitting will get played in a few months during the mid-term campaign season and more vulnerable Democrats running for office will be doing everything they can to walk it back and deny participation.

Also, it wasn't a complex question fallacy, but rather a straightforward question Trump and his speech writers knew the Democrats would answer just as they did. Their hatred of Trump outweighed everything else, and they paid the price for that.
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What price would that be? Intelligent people recognize fallacies.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
My bet is that clip showing some Democrat sitting will get played in a few months during the mid-term campaign season and more vulnerable Democrats running for office will be doing everything they can to walk it back and deny participation.

Also, it wasn't a complex question fallacy, but rather a straightforward question Trump and his speech writers knew the Democrats would answer just as they did. Their hatred of Trump outweighed everything else, and they paid the price for that.
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I doubt it. This will be long forgotten by November.
 
AProudLefty said:
@T. A. Gardner is supposed to be good at recognizing fallacies.
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A complex question fallacy is self-answering. Stand if you support American citizens first, don't if you support illegal aliens first is not a trick question of the complex question fallacy sort. You are given a clear choice.

Now, if Trump had worded it something like Democrats put illegal aliens first and American citizens last and I ask them to stand up for American citizens first, but they won't. That self-answers the question and makes it the fallacy, but that's not how he worded it.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
A complex question fallacy is self-answering. Stand if you support American citizens first, don't if you support illegal aliens first is not a trick question of the complex question fallacy sort. You are given a clear choice.

Now, if Trump had worded it something like Democrats put illegal aliens first and American citizens last and I ask them to stand up for American citizens first, but they won't. That self-answers the question and makes it the fallacy, but that's not how he worded it.
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No it's "you are either with us, or against us" fallacy.

It failed for Bush and now for Trump.

Democrats are for America and protecting Americans.
 
christiefan915 said:
Yet he doesn't understand that liberals don't believe the govt. is prioritizing undocumented aliens over American citizens.
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I believe the Left is for open borders and thinks along the lines of one of their tag phrases, No person is illegal...

That's why it's gone from, illegal alien, to illegal immigrant, to undocumented immigrant, and of late, just immigrant. They keep moving the goal posts because the terms are antitheoretical to their argument.

So, yes, I believe they don't prioritize American citizens over illegal aliens and foreign nationals.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
A complex question fallacy is self-answering. Stand if you support American citizens first, don't if you support illegal aliens first is not a trick question of the complex question fallacy sort. You are given a clear choice.

Now, if Trump had worded it something like Democrats put illegal aliens first and American citizens last and I ask them to stand up for American citizens first, but they won't. That self-answers the question and makes it the fallacy, but that's not how he worded it.
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If trump had said "Stand up and show your support. The first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens," everybody would have stood up. Instead he implied that some believe undocumented aliens are getting better protection.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I believe the Left is for open borders and thinks along the lines of one of their tag phrases, No person is illegal...

That's why it's gone from, illegal alien, to illegal immigrant, to undocumented immigrant, and of late, just immigrant. They keep moving the goal posts because the terms are antitheoretical to their argument.

So, yes, I believe they don't prioritize American citizens over illegal aliens and foreign nationals.
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You believe. Because Trump says so.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I believe the Left is for open borders and thinks along the lines of one of their tag phrases, No person is illegal...

That's why it's gone from, illegal alien, to illegal immigrant, to undocumented immigrant, and of late, just immigrant. They keep moving the goal posts because the terms are antitheoretical to their argument.

So, yes, I believe they don't prioritize American citizens over illegal aliens and foreign nationals.
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It's true. No person is illegal. Some people do perform illegal actions, but we all know trump is incapable of understanding that distinction.
 
AProudLefty said:
No it's "you are either with us, or against us" fallacy.
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Not that either. It simply asks you to choose between two groups, Who do you put at the head of the line? would be another way of phrasing it.
AProudLefty said:
Democrats are for America and protecting Americans.
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No, they're not. They protest ICE arresting vicious criminal aliens and fight tooth and nail to keep every illegal alien in the US. That's proven by sanctuary policies, policies that hinder and even obstruct ICE operations, and their open rioting against any attempts to remove illegals.

Their version is, well the vicious criminals are only a small fraction of the whole and ICE is removing the whole. When confronted that anyone here illegally is by definition a criminal, they switch to an argument about the severity of the crime rather than trying to deny the obvious.
 
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christiefan915 said:
If trump had said "Stand up and show your support. The first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens," everybody would have stood up. Instead he implied that some believe undocumented aliens are getting better protection.
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That's what he said! Listen to his statement and the question.
 
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