poll:who was best Pres in your lifetime

LV426 said:
The stimulus is the ARRA, dude.

It's the same thing.

The payroll tax cuts came almost two years after the ARRA was passed.
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It was still additional stimulus. You're arguing he wasn't given enough stimulus even with all that congress passed and helicopter Ben and QE
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Other Presidents have have had week opponents but haven’t won by the huge electoral landslides Reagan won by. Certainly certain segments of the population loathed. You don’t win those sort of landslide elections without broad popular support. No President in my lifetime has had the level of popular support Reagan had.

The fact is there hasn’t been a “great US President” since FDR. Most of our Presidents since FDR have, in fact, served our nation and more importantly, the public institution of the Presidency, quite well.

We have been fortunate that the large majority of Presidents have served our nation well and only a handful have not.
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Yes, it is objectively true that Reagan won two landslide electoral college victories. That is just a fact, and you are right to point it out.

What I am saying is that the electoral college is not a measure of the popular will, not a measure of the consent and approval of the governed. The EC is an undemocratic archaic system that was designed to put disproportionate power in the hands of slave states and rural states.

If you look at a real measure of the consent and approval of the governed - namely, job approval polling - collectively and on balance, Reagan was outperformed by Bill Clinton, JFK, Eishenhower, FDR. I submit that the myth of Reagans "enormous" popularity is just that - a myth.

I agree with you that FDR is the only president of the last century that ranks as a "Mount Rushmore" level of historical important and greatness.

Sidebar - Mikhail Gorbachev ended the Cold War. No idea why Reagan gets such undue credit. It did not even really end on his watch. And the self-serving legend that Reagan spent the Soviets into bankruptcy does not hold mustard. If the Russians felt like they need to continue to keep pace in an Arms race, they would never have just thrown up their hands and given up. We are talking about the people that preserved through a war of annihilation with the Nazis, and were willing be bear unbounded suffering on behalf of the Motherland. A twenty percent increase, or whatever, in American defense spending, was not even close to being the nail in the coffin of Soviet communism. The lion's share of the credit for ending the Cold War goes to Gorbechev, but credit can certainly be extended to all powt-WW2 U.S. Presidents, for their foresight in forming and maintaining NATO, the Marshal Plan, the Berlin Airlift, et al.
 
LV426 said:
Of course not, which is the point.
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"because when people get tax cuts, they don't spend them. They save them."

You stated the above. You did note the wealthy do so in particular. But the vast majority of those that got the cuts didn't save them. They spent the extra money.
 
Cypress said:
Yes, it is objectively true that Reagan won two landslide electoral college victories. That is just a fact, and you are right to point it out.

What I am saying is that the electoral college is not a measure of the popular will, not a measure of the consent and approval of the governed. The EC is an undemocratic archaic system that was designed to put disproportionate power in the hands of slave states and rural states.

If you look at a real measure of the consent and approval of the governed - namely, job approval polling - collectively and on balance, Reagan was outperformed by Bill Clinton, JFK, Eishenhower, FDR. I submit that the myth of Reagans "enormous" popularity is just that - a myth.

I agree with you that FDR is the only president of the last century that ranks as a "Mount Rushmore" level of historical important and greatness.

Sidebar - Mikhail Gorbachev ended the Cold War. No idea why Reagan gets such undue credit. It did not even really end on his watch. And the self-serving legend that Reagan spent the Soviets into bankruptcy does not hold mustard. If the Russians felt like they need to continue to keep pace in an Arms race, they would never have just thrown up their hands and given up. We are talking about the people that preserved through a war of annihilation with the Nazis, and were willing be bear unbounded suffering on behalf of the Motherland. A twenty percent increase, or whatever, in American defense spending, was not even close to being the nail in the coffin of Soviet communism. The lion's share of the credit for ending the Cold War goes to Gorbechev, but credit can certainly be extended to all powt-WW2 U.S. Presidents, for their foresight in forming and maintaining NATO, the Marshal Plan, the Berlin Airlift, et al.
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LMAO... such a revisionist.

Reagan won the popular vote 43.9 million to Carter's 35.5 million
He then destroyed Mondale by winning almost 60% of the popular vote. 54.4 to 37.6million. So yeah, he DOMINATED the popular vote as well.

As for your job approval theory... so by that accounting... GW Bush outperformed Obama. So here we have our resident leg humping rape apologist misogynistic cretin stating GW Bush was better than Obama.

Funny how the twit is so desperate to ignore what actually happened during the cold war and how it ended.
 
Superfreak said:
"because when people get tax cuts, they don't spend them. They save them."
You stated the above. You did note the wealthy do so in particular. But the vast majority of those that got the cuts didn't save them. They spent the extra money.
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Hence why I said some were revenue neutral.
 
cawacko said:
It was still additional stimulus. You're arguing he wasn't given enough stimulus even with all that congress passed and helicopter Ben and QE
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Ah, but it wasn't "the stimulus", which is what I was referring to.

So you're trying to conflate the stimulus (aka the ARRA) with the payroll tax cuts Obama did two years later because that's how you debate things; conflation.
 
LV426 said:
Ah, but it wasn't "the stimulus", which is what I was referring to.

So you're trying to conflate the stimulus (aka the ARRA) with the payroll tax cuts Obama did two years later because that's how you debate things; conflation.
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Your whole premise is obama wasn't given enough stimulus. We've listed out all the major legislation that was passed. It's the beauty of Keynesianism, no matter how much is spent you can always argue it wasn't enough
 
cawacko said:
Your whole premise is obama wasn't given enough stimulus. We've listed out all the major legislation that was passed. It's the beauty of Keynesianism, no matter how much is spent you can always argue it wasn't enough
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Right, he wasn't given enough stimulus. I said instead of tax cuts, it should have been all direct spending of at least $1T.

What you did was try and conflate the ARRA from 2009, with the payroll tax cuts from 2011, into one big "stimulus" and frame your argument that way. But that's pretty weak sauce since the payroll tax cuts came two years after the stimulus was passed.
 
LV426 said:
Right, he wasn't given enough stimulus. I said instead of tax cuts, it should have been all direct spending of at least $1T.

What you did was try and conflate the ARRA from 2009, with the payroll tax cuts from 2011, into one big "stimulus" and frame your argument that way. But that's pretty weak sauce since the payroll tax cuts came two years after the stimulus was passed.
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What's weak sauce is your lack of stimulous argument and claiming it's racist. But hey, the fun is just about to start as we attempt to recover from three rounds of QE
 
cawacko said:
What's weak sauce is your lack of stimulous argument and claiming it's racist. But hey, the fun is just about to start as we attempt to recover from three rounds of QE
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Well, your overriding motivation is racist ignorance, yes.

Your feelings mean nothing to me.
 
cawacko said:
But hey, the fun is just about to start as we attempt to recover from three rounds of QE
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Not sure why any supply-siders or Conservatives would have a problem with QE since it's literally trickle-down economics in its most base form.
 
cawacko said:
What's weak sauce is your lack of stimulous argument and claiming it's racist. But hey, the fun is just about to start as we attempt to recover from three rounds of QE
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It's not me who was conflating things in order to make a point; that was all you.
 
evince said:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/11/17561532/obama-best-president-trump-poll


Obama smashes it
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So far...Trump. Vox opinion poll.....really? You mean Latin American's loved the catch and release welfare king? Who'd a thunk it? When will you leftists learn? Polls that are targeted and askew are used for nothing but propaganda. Source: Vox: Latin for Voice. Why not take a poll among NRA members and ask them who was the greatest president in their lifetime? :laugh:
 
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