Poll: Barack Obama 42%, Ron Paul 41%

Superfreak said:
Yes, more are arrested, that is the point. Law enforcement disproportionately targets low income/minority areas. I would like to see your evidence that it has ANYTHING to do with lack of fathers in the home. As Soc just stated, drug use is less than 2% different from black to white. So why do cops target low income or minority areas and not the upper class or white neighborhoods?

I am addressing the cause of the problem. As is Ron Paul. Legalize the drugs and treat addicts like you would alcoholics. The drug war is a vast waste of money, time and other resources.
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Legalizing drugs won't see less other crime, because folks will commit crimes to pay for the legal drugs. Buy hey, legalize the shit, so long as I don't have to pay for the cost of treating them when they blow their minds up.
 
cawacko said:
Well that is you choosing to ignore the root of the problem, why it is like that.
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Actually I'm the one here addressing the root of the problem, which is that black men disproportionately abandon their families. Legalizing drugs won't change that.

And the cause of that problem is reduced expectations from society (like affirmative action), along with a culture that glorifies non-committal relationships.
 
Southern Man said:
You seem to have an issue with my age. That's because you can't best me at debate. Be assured that my experience simply gives me an advantage over you.

So try another tactic to ridicule me so I can beat you over the heat with that one as well. :)
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An accurate description of age seems like I have an issue? Didn't mean to imply that.

I enjoy our little chats.

You claim to be in good shape, is it from jumping to so many conclusions?
 
Southern Man said:
Actually I'm the one here addressing the root of the problem, which is that black men disproportionately abandon their families. Legalizing drugs won't change that.

And the cause of that problem is reduced expectations from society (like affirmative action), along with a culture that glorifies non-committal relationships.
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I've said nothing about legalizing drugs. I am talking about what the drugs laws do to poor blacks and their community. I went to school and grew up kids who lived in Oaklands inner-city and came from broken homes. Some of these were real good kids who are doing real good things with their lives right now. I also know some of them dealt drugs for a little while when they were young. I'm not saying dealing drugs is ok but I'm also not saying that I've never been young and never made mistakes and if my friends had spent years in jail for a mistake such as selling drugs in their youth they wouldn't be where they are today and the vicious cycle would continue.

This can obviously get way deeper but to simply say lack of fathers without at least looking at some of the root causes why in my opinion is simply an attempt to turn away from the problem without have to deal with it.
 
cawacko said:
I've said nothing about legalizing drugs. I am talking about what the drugs laws do to poor blacks and their community. I went to school and grew up kids who lived in Oaklands inner-city and came from broken homes. Some of these were real good kids who are doing real good things with their lives right now. I also know some of them dealt drugs for a little while when they were young. I'm not saying dealing drugs is ok but I'm also not saying that I've never been young and never made mistakes and if my friends had spent years in jail for a mistake such as selling drugs in their youth they wouldn't be where they are today and the vicious cycle would continue.

This can obviously get way deeper but to simply say lack of fathers without at least looking at some of the root causes why in my opinion is simply an attempt to turn away from the problem without have to deal with it.
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That's why I gave you my opinions on what the root causes are and are not. What do you think are the rot causes of fathers abandoning their families?
 
Southern Man said:
That's why I gave you my opinions on what the root causes are and are not. What do you think are the rot causes of fathers abandoning their families?
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It's pretty damn hard to be a father when you are behind bars. When you are a young successful black male and a lot of your competition (other black males) in the race for black women are behind bars you have beyond your pick of the liter.

Yes the breakdown of the family is the issue. The question is why is that? Has public policy played a role in that and if so what kind of role?

You can look at certain type of welfare programs that has led to breakdown of the black family. You can look at the number of black men in jail that has led to the breakdown of the black family. And when talking about jail I would choose to focus on the some of the harsh drug laws that have done the most damage.
 
Southern Man said:
Actually I'm the one here addressing the root of the problem, which is that black men disproportionately abandon their families. Legalizing drugs won't change that.

And the cause of that problem is reduced expectations from society (like affirmative action), along with a culture that glorifies non-committal relationships.
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White college students don't often have committal relationships. They also don't have a high birth rate, so it doesn't matter.

I wonder why this is?
 
Bittermark said:
The Green and Libertarian message could probably appeal to at most 5-10% of the population. In a plurality system, you really need to be able to maintain at least 20% support at the national level to maintain a party and win a few seats (though you'll win far less than 20% of the seats). Even the people whom the Green or Libertarian message appeals to don't vote for the parties, so yes, it does suppress their vote percentage, but they wouldn't be winning if their votes weren't strategically suppressed anyway.

The only place the Greens are competitive, for instance, is San Fransisco, obviously one of the most liberal places in the country, and even there they're in an extreme minority. At the end of the day it's a lot easier to just run in a party primary than to try to bring the whole system down.
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I think you are quite wrong. The main problem with the two is lack of exposure and organization.

Not to mention the barriers to entry that make it hard to get on par with the Reps and Dems.

Just look at debates... the Reps and Dems in conjunction with the media 'decide' who gets to participate. In primaries for the two parties... 6-10 candidates? Not a problem. But for a Presidential debate... well gee golly, we should only have the main two (or in rare cases like Perot three) candidates... otherwise those poor voters might get confused.
 
Southern Man said:
Actually I'm the one here addressing the root of the problem, which is that black men disproportionately abandon their families. Legalizing drugs won't change that.

And the cause of that problem is reduced expectations from society (like affirmative action), along with a culture that glorifies non-committal relationships.
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you are shamefully ignorant for a college grad, 25% of young black men have spent time behind bars. Many if not most for simple possession of a non dangerous small amount of pot.
 
Topspin said:
you are shamefully ignorant for a college grad, 25% of young black men have spent time behind bars. Many if not most for simple possession of a non dangerous small amount of pot.
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If they had fathers at home they would be less likely to break laws, regardless if you see those laws as victimless or not.
 
KingCondanomation said:
As much as a dream come true that would be that is a bit shocking, especially given that Ron Paul really is not that well known.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...012/election_2012_barack_obama_42_ron_paul_41

I know some of the lefties on here will disparage him, but say what you want, Ron Paul is the ONLY presidential candidate who would actually eliminate the deficit and pay down our debt. Nearly 50 years of adding debt has to stop.
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YOu mean like Clinton did before Bush was elected and fucked things up with his irresponsible tax cuts and his drunken spending on an immoral war in Iraq?
 
Superfreak said:
I think you are quite wrong. The main problem with the two is lack of exposure and organization.

Not to mention the barriers to entry that make it hard to get on par with the Reps and Dems.

Just look at debates... the Reps and Dems in conjunction with the media 'decide' who gets to participate. In primaries for the two parties... 6-10 candidates? Not a problem. But for a Presidential debate... well gee golly, we should only have the main two (or in rare cases like Perot three) candidates... otherwise those poor voters might get confused.
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I think an estimate of 5%-10% even with all the exposure in the world would be about correct. Even in nations like Germany, which are very friendly to third parties, Greens don't get more than 10% of the vote (of course, in europe the radical libertarian movement that exists here is non-existent).

Perot was a much stronger candidate than anyone the Greens or Libertarians have ever presented. Anderson also appeared in debates (around the time he was polling 20%).
 
cawacko said:
It's pretty damn hard to be a father when you are behind bars. When you are a young successful black male and a lot of your competition (other black males) in the race for black women are behind bars you have beyond your pick of the liter.

Yes the breakdown of the family is the issue. The question is why is that? Has public policy played a role in that and if so what kind of role?

You can look at certain type of welfare programs that has led to breakdown of the black family. You can look at the number of black men in jail that has led to the breakdown of the black family. And when talking about jail I would choose to focus on the some of the harsh drug laws that have done the most damage.
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When I was in HS I knew a girl who actually wanted to get pregnant and had no intention of getting married because she knew she could then get public housing. Her child then grows up without a father and then this situation becomes the new normal, hence the fatherless society. She happened to be white so this situation transcends race. But add in affirmative action and the victim mentality perpetuated by the Democrat Party and you end up with a disproportionately high number of blacks in this situation.

This has nothing to do with drugs.
 
Southern Man said:
If they had fathers at home they would be less likely to break laws, regardless if you see those laws as victimless or not.
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a hollywood starlet cuaght with $100,000 in much more dangerous cocain gets rehab, a black man with $1,000 of pot get years in prison. Only a card carrying racist can't see the propblem with that.
 
Topspin said:
a hollywood starlet cuaght with $100,000 in much more dangerous cocain gets rehab, a black man with $1,000 of pot get years in prison. Only a card carrying racist can't see the propblem with that.
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If the starlet was black and the man was white the outcome would be the same.
 
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