Politics from the pulpit

R

Rune

Mjölner
More than 1,000 pastors are planning to challenge the IRS next month by deliberately preaching politics ahead of the presidential election despite a federal ban on endorsements from the pulpit.
The defiant move, they hope, will prompt the IRS to enforce a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. Alliance Defending Freedom, which is holding the October summit, said it wants the IRS to press the matter so it can be decided in court. The group believes the law violates the First Amendment by “muzzling” preachers.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pastors-pledge-to-defy-irs-preach-politics-from-pulpit-ahead-election/#ixzz27yA3NKl5

If you enjoy the benefits of tax free status, follow the rules.
 
Rune said:
More than 1,000 pastors are planning to challenge the IRS next month by deliberately preaching politics ahead of the presidential election despite a federal ban on endorsements from the pulpit.
The defiant move, they hope, will prompt the IRS to enforce a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. Alliance Defending Freedom, which is holding the October summit, said it wants the IRS to press the matter so it can be decided in court. The group believes the law violates the First Amendment by “muzzling” preachers.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pastors-pledge-to-defy-irs-preach-politics-from-pulpit-ahead-election/#ixzz27yA3NKl5

If you enjoy the benefits of tax free status, follow the rules.
Click to expand...

Good. Bring it - and let preachers and their cults no longer be tax exempt.
 
"...This led me to examine more attentively than I had hitherto done the station which the American clergy occupy in political society. I learned with surprise that they filled no public appointments; I did not see one of them in the administration, and they are not even represented in the legislative assemblies.
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other.... I have known societies formed by Americans to send out ministers of the Gospel into the new Western states, to found schools and churches there, lest religion should be allowed to die away in those remote settlements, and the rising states be less fitted to enjoy free institutions than the people from whom they came....
I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers, and it was not there; in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and it was not there; in her rich mines and her vast world commerce, and it was not there. Not until I went to the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.", Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle.
"It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government." President George Washington, "Farewell Adress

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1, The United States Constitution
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

Amendment I, The Bill of Rights

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Funny, I thought the issue had already been decided ....
 
Nick4444 said:
"...This led me to examine more attentively than I had hitherto done the station which the American clergy occupy in political society. I learned with surprise that they filled no public appointments; I did not see one of them in the administration, and they are not even represented in the legislative assemblies.
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other.... I have known societies formed by Americans to send out ministers of the Gospel into the new Western states, to found schools and churches there, lest religion should be allowed to die away in those remote settlements, and the rising states be less fitted to enjoy free institutions than the people from whom they came....
I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers, and it was not there; in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and it was not there; in her rich mines and her vast world commerce, and it was not there. Not until I went to the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.", Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle.
"It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government." President George Washington, "Farewell Adress

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1, The United States Constitution
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

Amendment I, The Bill of Rights

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Funny, I thought the issue had already been decided ....
Click to expand...

Funny (not) you thought wrong. Pay your property taxes.
 
Nick4444 said:
"...This led me to examine more attentively than I had hitherto done the station which the American clergy occupy in political society. I learned with surprise that they filled no public appointments; I did not see one of them in the administration, and they are not even represented in the legislative assemblies.
The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other.... I have known societies formed by Americans to send out ministers of the Gospel into the new Western states, to found schools and churches there, lest religion should be allowed to die away in those remote settlements, and the rising states be less fitted to enjoy free institutions than the people from whom they came....
I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers, and it was not there; in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and it was not there; in her rich mines and her vast world commerce, and it was not there. Not until I went to the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.", Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle.
"It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government." President George Washington, "Farewell Adress

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1, The United States Constitution
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

Amendment I, The Bill of Rights

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Funny, I thought the issue had already been decided ....
Click to expand...

if you choose to avail yourself of IRS exemption laws, you must abide by those laws
 
Rune said:
More than 1,000 pastors are planning to challenge the IRS next month by deliberately preaching politics ahead of the presidential election despite a federal ban on endorsements from the pulpit.
The defiant move, they hope, will prompt the IRS to enforce a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. Alliance Defending Freedom, which is holding the October summit, said it wants the IRS to press the matter so it can be decided in court. The group believes the law violates the First Amendment by “muzzling” preachers.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pastors-pledge-to-defy-irs-preach-politics-from-pulpit-ahead-election/#ixzz27yA3NKl5

If you enjoy the benefits of tax free status, follow the rules.
Click to expand...

Their best argument is that the law is discriminatory as it does not apply to unions who also enjoy tax exempt status. Which would you prefer? Churches be allowed or unions not be allowed?
 
Honoring the concept of separation of church and state by eliminating all church tax breaks would wipe out the deficit immediately.
 
Howey said:
Honoring the concept of separation of church and state by eliminating all church tax breaks would wipe out the deficit immediately.
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Should unions be allowed tax exempt status under the same reasoning that they participate in political activities? If yes why? If no why?

Thank you in advance for what I am sure will be a thoughtful and well articulated response
 
Personally, I favor taxing churches as businesses. Only funds that are earmarked for helping others (e.g. soup kitchens, shelters and the like) should be tax exempt. But it takes balls for a Democrat to raise this issue, considering liberal churches are just as (if not more) guilty than right-wing churches when it comes to politics from the pulpit.
 
Voltaire said:
Personally, I favor taxing churches as businesses. Only funds that are earmarked for helping others (e.g. soup kitchens, shelters and the like) should be tax exempt. But it takes balls for a Democrat to raise this issue, considering liberal churches are just as (if not more) guilty than right-wing churches when it comes to politics from the pulpit.
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But what about unions?
 
Bijou said:
Are unions a religion? They're a church?

Are you confused?
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Try to keep up sweetie. The argument is that because of its tax exempt status the church cannot participate in political activity. Which means that conversely if they did not enjoy tax exempt status they could.

Now this is where it is going to get tricky for you and confuse the shit out of you.

Unions enjoy tax exempt status and they participate in political activity. Why the difference. And don't hide behind the separation of church and state argument because the entire premise of the OP was not based on the first amendment but the tax exempt status

Good luck
 
FactsRStubborn said:
Try to keep up sweetie. The argument is that because of its tax exempt status the church cannot participate in political activity. Which means that conversely if they did not enjoy tax exempt status they could.

Now this is where it is going to get tricky for you and confuse the shit out of you.

Unions enjoy tax exempt status and they participate in political activity. Why the difference. And don't hide behind the separation of church and state argument because the entire premise of the OP was not based on the first amendment but the tax exempt status

Good luck
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Answer the questions, Alias.

Are unions a religion? They're a church?

Are you confused?
 
FactsRStubborn said:
That is irrelevant to the issue at hand. I knew it would've too difficult for you. I apologize for taxing your limited mental faculties.
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You can't answer because you're too confused and befuddled. Here's a hint: There is nothing 'religious' about unions.

You're welcome.
 
Rune said:
More than 1,000 pastors are planning to challenge the IRS next month by deliberately preaching politics ahead of the presidential election despite a federal ban on endorsements from the pulpit.
The defiant move, they hope, will prompt the IRS to enforce a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, from making political endorsements. Alliance Defending Freedom, which is holding the October summit, said it wants the IRS to press the matter so it can be decided in court. The group believes the law violates the First Amendment by “muzzling” preachers.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/pastors-pledge-to-defy-irs-preach-politics-from-pulpit-ahead-election/#ixzz27yA3NKl5

If you enjoy the benefits of tax free status, follow the rules.
Click to expand...

Or change the rules?
 
Bijou said:
You can't answer because you're too confused and befuddled. Here's a hint: There is nothing 'religious' about unions.

You're welcome.
Click to expand...

I don't recall a provision in the Constitution guaranteeing "separation of union and state", do you?

Did you know Alexander Hamilton was a strong proponent of protecting the American worker against big business?
 
Howey said:
I don't recall a provision in the Constitution guaranteeing "separation of union and state", do you?

Did you know Alexander Hamilton was a strong proponent of protecting the American worker against big business?
Click to expand...

What kind of motherfuckin' socialist/marxist/commie bastard was Hamilton, anyway???

Arrrgghhh!

:rofl2:
 
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