Petraeus Says Quran Burning Endangers War Effort .

first off, i never said petraeus said it should be illegal, jarod can't read and his liberal idiot friends jumped on the wagon.

i'm surprised at some of you who believe he should not burn the book. you're caving into a few radical nutcases. and contrary to tom's moronic assertion, this is not about RACE. it is about religion and speech. we should not chill our speech because a few radical muslims kill each other. the pastor is in no way responsible for their actions. and petraeus is talking about CHILLING our speech. to claim he is not is ridiculous. he wants the pastor to NOT exercise his right and burn the quran. coming from such a high powered general, it carries a lot of weight and our military should not be chilling our speech by asking us not to do something we are entitled to do.
 
Yurt said:
first off, i never said petraeus said it should be illegal, jarod can't read and his liberal idiot friends jumped on the wagon.

i'm surprised at some of you who believe he should not burn the book. you're caving into a few radical nutcases. and contrary to tom's moronic assertion, this is not about RACE. it is about religion and speech. we should not chill our speech because a few radical muslims kill each other. the pastor is in no way responsible for their actions. and petraeus is talking about CHILLING our speech. to claim he is not is ridiculous. he wants the pastor to NOT exercise his right and burn the quran. coming from such a high powered general, it carries a lot of weight and our military should not be chilling our speech by asking us not to do something we are entitled to do.
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He's not "chilling speech." I'm not even sure if you know what that means. The general has a responsibility to do everything he can to protect the men & women who are under his command. He's not implying any reprucussions or veiled threats to the pastor. He's excercising his free speech, as it relates to his job.

With free speech, everyone has a right to say & do inflammatory things. But others have an equal right to comment on that, and talk about what that kind of speech might result in...
 
Yurt said:
Petraeus Says Quran Burning Endangers War Effort .

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576240643831942006.html

petraeus is ready to give up our freedom of speech because of a few nutso muslims who kill each and might turn on american troops....i'm amazed he believes its just about burning their book...we don't need a military leader telling us what to do with our speech. i expect him to fight for that freedom, not to chill that freedom.
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Can you read your own writing Yurtard?" petaeus is ready to give up our freedom of speech"

What a liar you are.
 
I don't see anything remotely controversial about anything that Petraeus actually said nor do I see anything that would chill speech. Petraeus simply offered his opinion on the matter.
 
Yurt said:
first off, i never said petraeus said it should be illegal, jarod can't read and his liberal idiot friends jumped on the wagon.

i'm surprised at some of you who believe he should not burn the book. you're caving into a few radical nutcases. and contrary to tom's moronic assertion, this is not about RACE. it is about religion and speech. we should not chill our speech because a few radical muslims kill each other. the pastor is in no way responsible for their actions. and petraeus is talking about CHILLING our speech. to claim he is not is ridiculous. he wants the pastor to NOT exercise his right and burn the quran. coming from such a high powered general, it carries a lot of weight and our military should not be chilling our speech by asking us not to do something we are entitled to do.
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It is not caving yurt. The pastor is most certainly partially responsible for the atrocities committed. He has a right to say what he wants and he has a right to burn the book, no one is arguing against his rights to do so. The question is SHOULD HE and is it the 'right' thing to do? Like it or not, speech has consequences. Walk into a GLBT convention and spew forth how much you hate 'faggots/dikes' etc... (not saying you actually do hate them by any means, just using this as an example). You have the RIGHT to say things, but that doesn't make it 'right'... and there likely will be consequences.

Similar to the idiots from KS that protest at military funerals... free speech gives them the right to do so... but again, their words will have consequences.

Patreaus is not talking about 'chilling our rights' or any such nonsense. He is asking us to behave like adults. Burning the Quran serves no purpose other than to inflame. It is 100% disrespectful, regardless of its legality.

AS for your military ramblings... if the military asked us to save metal for use in a war effort... are they 'chilling' our right to use metal or are they asking citizens to help them out?

Bottom line, you are way off base on your assessment of the situation.
 
I think the people who started slaughtering people because some other person burned a book they hold dear are wholly responsible for their own actions even if they really liked the book a lot. I wonder if Patreas thinks that burning those Bibles that they burned in Afghanistan after they were sent over for the troops to give away is reason for concern?

The reality is one cannot be held responsible for anybody who would kill some other person for the actions of a man in Florida.
 
Superfreak said:
It is not caving yurt. The pastor is most certainly partially responsible for the atrocities committed. He has a right to say what he wants and he has a right to burn the book, no one is arguing against his rights to do so. The question is SHOULD HE and is it the 'right' thing to do? Like it or not, speech has consequences. Walk into a GLBT convention and spew forth how much you hate 'faggots/dikes' etc... (not saying you actually do hate them by any means, just using this as an example). You have the RIGHT to say things, but that doesn't make it 'right'... and there likely will be consequences.

Similar to the idiots from KS that protest at military funerals... free speech gives them the right to do so... but again, their words will have consequences.

Patreaus is not talking about 'chilling our rights' or any such nonsense. He is asking us to behave like adults. Burning the Quran serves no purpose other than to inflame. It is 100% disrespectful, regardless of its legality.

AS for your military ramblings... if the military asked us to save metal for use in a war effort... are they 'chilling' our right to use metal or are they asking citizens to help them out?

Bottom line, you are way off base on your assessment of the situation.
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your analogy falls flat. saving metal and speech are not even remotely related. chilling speech is exactly what petraeus is doing. to chill speech, you need only something that dampens it. our military should not be engaging in this behavior regarding our right to free speech. it is in fact caving in. you want him to not exercise his right and burn the quran because you're afraid of what a few wacko muslims will do. you and petraeus would never say a word about this if it wasn't for a few wacko muslims killing each other. this is just like the cartoon issue...

and the pastor who burned the book is not respoinsible in the slightest for the actions of a murderers....and wackjobs...
 
Yurt said:
your analogy falls flat. saving metal and speech are not even remotely related. chilling speech is exactly what petraeus is doing. to chill speech, you need only something that dampens it. our military should not be engaging in this behavior regarding our right to free speech. it is in fact caving in. you want him to not exercise his right and burn the quran because you're afraid of what a few wacko muslims will do. you and petraeus would never say a word about this if it wasn't for a few wacko muslims killing each other. this is just like the cartoon issue...
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and the pastor who burned the book is not respoinsible in the slightest for the actions of a murderers....and wackjobs...
 
Holden Caulfield said:
Can you read your own writing Yurtard?" petaeus is ready to give up our freedom of speech"

What a liar you are.
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you are a retard....jarod and christie claimed i said petraeus wants to make it illegal to burn the quran....i never said that...chilling speech does not equate with making it illegal....

what a dumbass you are
 
Yurt said:
your analogy falls flat. saving metal and speech are not even remotely related. chilling speech is exactly what petraeus is doing. to chill speech, you need only something that dampens it. our military should not be engaging in this behavior regarding our right to free speech. it is in fact caving in. you want him to not exercise his right and burn the quran because you're afraid of what a few wacko muslims will do. you and petraeus would never say a word about this if it wasn't for a few wacko muslims killing each other. this is just like the cartoon issue...

and the pastor who burned the book is not respoinsible in the slightest for the actions of a murderers....and wackjobs...
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No moron, it doesn't fall flat, your ability to comprehend is what falls flat.

Patreaus did not say 'you can't say that or you can't burn the book and if you do the military will come get you' or any other vague threat. Thus, in the absence of a threat of consequences, you can't make the case that there was ANY effort to chill free speech.

As I stated and you ignored, what he said was a REQUEST for help. He, like the majority of the world (yourself excluded) , understands that words and deeds have consequences. KNOWING that burning the Quran is something that the radicals will use as an excuse for violence, he is asking that idiots like this pastor refrain from burning the Quran.

The Pastor knew EXACTLY what type of response he would get from the radicals. He knew it when he did his trial balloon last year and saw the response THAT generated. He is most certainly partially responsible for the deaths and the violence. He KNEW his actions would create that violence and he did it anyway. Legally he has that right, but morally and ethically is was 100% wrong to do so.

Asking others to be respectful is not 'caving in'.... it is behaving like an adult and not a child throwing a tantrum.
 
It's incredible that this is even a topic of debate. Here we have someone like Petraeus, who is probably more familiar with Afghanistan at this point than just about anyone, and who understands what kind of consequences there can be for certain actions. And there are people who think he shouldn't say anything about that, because it would be "chilling"?

Ssssshhhhhhh....even though you think it might get people hurt or killed, keep it to yourself, general. The pastor who wants to burn books should have some precedence here...
 
Patraeus has every right to speak his mind. However, so do we. It is silly to suggest that the pastor has responsibility for murders others commit because he burned some paper. That's total rubbish. One burns some paper with words on it, the other slaughters humans... the response is 100% the responsibility of those who killed people.
 
Damocles said:
I think the people who started slaughtering people because some other person burned a book they hold dear are wholly responsible for their own actions even if they really liked the book a lot. I wonder if Patreas thinks that burning those Bibles that they burned in Afghanistan after they were sent over for the troops to give away is reason for concern?

The reality is one cannot be held responsible for anybody who would kill some other person for the actions of a man in Florida.
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I disagree. If you KNOW your actions are going to lead to some psycho going off on a killing spree and you go through with your actions anyway... you are partially responsible. The bulk of the blame will lie with the one who does the killing, but if you hand the loaded weapon to the killer, you are partially to blame.
 
Damocles said:
Patraeus has every right to speak his mind. However, so do we. It is silly to suggest that the pastor has responsibility for murders others commit because he burned some paper. That's total rubbish.
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People aren't responsible at all for consequences that result from their speech, particularly ones they are fully aware of prior to speaking or acting?

Really?
 
Superfreak said:
I disagree. If you KNOW your actions are going to lead to some psycho going off on a killing spree and you go through with your actions anyway... you are partially responsible. The bulk of the blame will lie with the one who does the killing, but if you hand the loaded weapon to the killer, you are partially to blame.
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Nobody "kinew" that their actions would send some nutjob into a killing spree elsewhere. It is far more likely he thought they'd start burning bibles, flags, or some other nonsense rather than killing random people that had nothing to do with some other dude who burned the book. It's ridiculous to give anybody responsibility over the actions of a nutjob who projects blame randomly.
 
In short, I believe the pastor knew his actions would make him (the pastor) a target, not that some group of people would randomly select innocents to blame and kill them.
 
Damocles said:
Nobody "knew" that their actions would send some nutjob into a killing spree elsewhere. It is far more likely he thought they'd start burning bibles, flags, or some other nonsense rather than killing random people that had nothing to do with some other dude who burned the book. It's ridiculous to give anybody responsibility over the actions of a nutjob who projects blame randomly.
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You are right..it was a stupid and imo disgraceful stunt, but he is in no way responsible for the killings. It would be like blaming abortion clinics and doctors for religious nut jobs who then bomb/kill abortionist's.
 
Superfreak said:
No moron, it doesn't fall flat, your ability to comprehend is what falls flat.

Patreaus did not say 'you can't say that or you can't burn the book and if you do the military will come get you' or any other vague threat. Thus, in the absence of a threat of consequences, you can't make the case that there was ANY effort to chill free speech.

As I stated and you ignored, what he said was a REQUEST for help. He, like the majority of the world (yourself excluded) , understands that words and deeds have consequences. KNOWING that burning the Quran is something that the radicals will use as an excuse for violence, he is asking that idiots like this pastor refrain from burning the Quran.

The Pastor knew EXACTLY what type of response he would get from the radicals. He knew it when he did his trial balloon last year and saw the response THAT generated. He is most certainly partially responsible for the deaths and the violence. He KNEW his actions would create that violence and he did it anyway. Legally he has that right, but morally and ethically is was 100% wrong to do so.

Asking others to be respectful is not 'caving in'.... it is behaving like an adult and not a child throwing a tantrum.
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you obviously are clueless on what "chill speech" means....because you and the other idiots think it means making it illegal. when a four star general asks you to NOT exercise your first amendment rights, that is in fact putting a chill on the right. you need to go and read up on what chilling speech is, then you'll understand much more than you do now.

your OPINION that the pastor knew exactly what would happen is not fact, no matter how much you want to pass it off as fact. he is not responsible at all for the actions of crazy idiots. it is caving in, because but for the actions of a few nutjobs, you and petraeus would not be asking him to not exercise his rights.
 
Ice Dancer said:
You are right..it was a stupid and imo disgraceful stunt, but he is in no way responsible for the killings. It would be like blaming abortion clinics and doctors for religious nut jobs who then bomb/kill abortionist's.
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exactly...SF even mentioned some wackjob christians killing and bombing in another thread....using his logic, we need to shut down all clinics because we "know" someone will kill or bomb the clinic
 
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