Paul Krugman doing an question and answer over at reddit right now

anemic economic growth, inflation is low only due to housing prices (which the average person doesn't feel on a day by day basis) Inflation on energy, food, clothing averaging over 5%. Gasoline up 100%+ since Obama took over. Unemployment still over 8%. More and more regulations and government bureaucracy. The stock market is up because investors have no where else to go. We suck less than the EU and China on a relative basis, thus the money is pumping into our markets. Obama throwing up continuous road blocks to energy independence. Yeah... great economic leader he is.


As an initial matter, I never said that Obama was a great economic leader and I think his policies, while substantially less bad than what the Republicans would like to do, are not very good at all.

That aside, the real problem that I have with your argument is that the policies you support would make things worse, not better. Growth, while anemic now, would be worse. Unemployment, while high right now, would be worse. Look at Europe for Christ's sake. You're impervious to facts.

I guess a stagnant economy would make gasoline prices cheaper by lower demand - and food and clothing as well - but on balance I think I'd prefer a growing economy.
 
Most people don't. Unlike Dung, at least you understand what you don't understand. Dung just repeats the nonsense of Krugman and his ilk and pretends he knows what he is talking about. Dung and the like are determined to prove that fiscal irresponsibility should be addressed by more more fiscal irresponsibility because to them in some fantasy future, politicians will actually eventually pay the debt for them.


The irony is strong with this one.
 
Most people don't. Unlike Dung, at least you understand what you don't understand. Dung just repeats the nonsense of Krugman and his ilk and pretends he knows what he is talking about. Dung and the like are determined to prove that fiscal irresponsibility should be addressed by more more fiscal irresponsibility because to them in some fantasy future, politicians will actually eventually pay the debt for them.

Dung could say the same thing about you, you know.
 
Most people don't. Unlike Dung, at least you understand what you don't understand. Dung just repeats the nonsense of Krugman and his ilk and pretends he knows what he is talking about. Dung and the like are determined to prove that fiscal irresponsibility should be addressed by more more fiscal irresponsibility because to them in some fantasy future, politicians will actually eventually pay the debt for them.

Friedman's system doesn't seem to work either. It seems that both systems have their flaws and we need option "C"
 
The sae thing, and you are a teacher! Not shocking

Well, the "e" key is right next to the "w" key, you know. But coming from the guy who asked about "kaynsians," well . . . glass houses and all.



Edit: HA! I totally fucked this up but it's awesome sauce so I'm leaving it up anyway. I'm a tremendous dipshit. Lolers.
 
No, he couldn't. Unlike Dung, I have a degree in economics.

So? He seems to have a strong grasp, you just don't agree with application. It seems that neither measure works and what is needed is a third method, maybe a combination of the good points from each?
 
Friedman's system doesn't seem to work either. It seems that both systems have their flaws and we need option "C"

Keynes does work when appropriately applied. Friedmans monetary theory does work and it was proven to work during the time of Volcker. Like Keynes, the monetarists view can also be warped by politicians.
 
So? He seems to have a strong grasp, you just don't agree with application. It seems that neither measure works and what is needed is a third method, maybe a combination of the good points from each?

No... what I don't agree with is his (via the likes of Krugman) warped view of what Keynes theory is. He, like Krugman, feel there should be no pain in the present. That we should just keep on spending until the economy recovers and is strong. Then he, like Krugman, will continue bitching and moaning every time someone suggests cutting government spending.

Ike was the last President to reduce the national debt in a fiscal year. For fifty plus years the idiots in DC in both parties have failed to repeat that. The closest was in 2000 when massive revenues came in due to the tech/telecom/internet capital gains revenue burst. Yet the idiots still managed to outspend revenue.

Dung wants to continue sticking the future generations with more and more debt. In the past ten years alone we have tripled the nations debt. More debt is not the answer. There is a reason corporate cash is sitting at astronomical levels. They fear the future of taxation. They know who is going to get stuck with the idiots in DC's bill.
 
Keynes does work when appropriately applied. Friedmans monetary theory does work and it was proven to work during the time of Volcker. Like Keynes, the monetarists view can also be warped by politicians.

Friedman's was devastating to some countries economies as well. I don't think anything is pure, it always seems to be warped by people and their greed or their need for power.

Why did you become an economist? To help people or help yourself?

I recently picked up a book by Muhammad Yunus, what do you think of him?
 
No, he couldn't. Unlike Dung, I have a degree in economics.


Well, I could. But I'm not a dick and I don't think that knowledgeable people with whom I disagree are idiots because they disagree with me. I think you know what you're talking about, but are misguided.
 
No... what I don't agree with is his (via the likes of Krugman) warped view of what Keynes theory is. He, like Krugman, feel there should be no pain in the present. That we should just keep on spending until the economy recovers and is strong. Then he, like Krugman, will continue bitching and moaning every time someone suggests cutting government spending.

I can understand this argument. At least it makes sense.

Ike was the last President to reduce the national debt in a fiscal year. For fifty plus years the idiots in DC in both parties have failed to repeat that. The closest was in 2000 when massive revenues came in due to the tech/telecom/internet capital gains revenue burst. Yet the idiots still managed to outspend revenue.

I can understand this argument, but it doesn't make any sense coming from a die hard Reaganite who supported the Bush tax cuts and presently opposes tax increases.


Dung wants to continue sticking the future generations with more and more debt. In the past ten years alone we have tripled the nations debt. More debt is not the answer. There is a reason corporate cash is sitting at astronomical levels. They fear the future of taxation. They know who is going to get stuck with the idiots in DC's bill.

And this is just total bullshit, given (1) I have said repeatedly that short-term increases in spending need to be coupled with long-term decreases in spending; (2) near term spending increases to grow the economy improve our ability to pay down our debt, particularly where the cost of borrowing is negligible and there are plenty of socially beneficial uses to which that money can be spent and (3) the measures that you support to decrease debt actually don't decrease debt, they increase it and slow economic growth.
 
I can understand this argument, but it doesn't make any sense coming from a die hard Reaganite who supported the Bush tax cuts and presently opposes tax increases.

The problem you have here is that you are the one labeling me a die hard Reaganite. You have the misconception that by supporting the Bush tax cuts I am somehow in favor of his profligate spending. As I mentioned to Rana, any economic theory can fail if not properly implemented. Tax cuts do not work without corresponding spending cuts or closing of loopholes/deductions (that offset the cuts... ie.. simplification of the tax code).

I also do not oppose tax increases in general right now. I do oppose the stupidity of the focus on the marginal tax rates. A better fix would be to treat all sources of income the same. Obviously I would personally take it further by eliminating the corp tax, eliminating all loopholes and deductions with the exception of the standard deduction (which I would drastically raise). But for now, the cap gains rate would be what I would target.

And this is just total bullshit, given (1) I have said repeatedly that short-term increases in spending need to be coupled with long-term decreases in spending;

Correct. The problem is that it never happens. It is the second half of Keynsian theory that the left always fights. (not that the right has been any better of late)

(2) near term spending increases to grow the economy improve our ability to pay down our debt, particularly where the cost of borrowing is negligible and there are plenty of socially beneficial uses to which that money can be spent and (3) the measures that you support to decrease debt actually don't decrease debt, they increase it and slow economic growth.

Only if it is done in areas like infrastructure. Spending for the sake of spending does not work. You must take it from the future and put it into the present. That is Keynes theory. That is what works. The stop gap measures at this point do little but maintain the status quo. Which is why the economy continues to flounder and unemployment remains high.

The cost of borrowing is high, despite the low interest rates, due to the size of the borrowing. As I stated before, it is like maxing out your credit card at the teaser rate and then having to come up with the money when it comes time to refi. Realistically we are not going to have an extra $4 Trillion to pay the low interest debt off when the time comes to refi.

The measures I support do not decrease the economic growth. They allow for a clear future and thus allow for actual job creation. You know... that thing that puts money in the hands of consumers and allows them to spend again. You continue to assume that the government spending is the only spending. Everyone and their brother sees the writing on the wall. All it does is keep the power in the hands of the idiots in DC. They are not the answer. They are the problem. (on that I agree with Reagan)

You again display exactly what I was referring to... You don't think we should feel any of the pain our profligate spending has brought us to. You want to continue pushing the problem further and further into the future. All that does is magnify the pain in the future.
 
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