Pagan Roots? 5 Surprising Facts About Christmas

SuperstringTheory said:
By who, is it believed they were written by the eye witness?

You are not understanding and becoming defensive.

Josephus was not a cotemporary of Christ. He wrote about someome else's account of Christ. He did not provide any support for his existence. Further, it is disputed whether the brief mention came from him or was inserted after the fact by the church.
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how is discussing the issue with you becoming defensive? i don't care if you believe me or other people. i am merely explaining how you're not absolutely correct.

sorry that upset you.

merry christmas
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I know I am right....the largest Christian churches in the world are in South Korea, Nigeria and Brazil.....
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Even with that you are still wrong. You logic would suggest that everyone in America was a Phelps homophobe, and I know some people who aren't.
 
cannabis said:
how is discussing the issue with you becoming defensive? i don't care if you believe me or other people. i am merely explaining how you're not absolutely correct.

sorry that upset you.

merry christmas
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You are making it personal claiming that these are just my assertions. I am referring to the consensus of historians. There just is not very good proof for the existence of Christ. You implied it was well documented and an accepted part of history.
 
SuperstringTheory said:
You are making it personal claiming that these are just my assertions. I am referring to the consensus of historians. There just is not very good proof for the existence of Christ. You implied it was well documented and an accepted part of history.
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And down the rabbit hole we go.......it's useless you know! Kudos in any case, job well done.
 
In all it matters not a jot. It is 'accepted' that a man, who the west knows as Jesus, existed. Whether that 'acceptance' is important is quite another question.
Observations, both here and in the real world, would suggest that, if Jesus did exist and teach what what people believe him to have taught, he was singularly unsuccessful in some quarters. There is no way that PMP or Dixie follow, or even attempt to follow, those teachings.
It is becoming more accepted now that those who have eschewed religion tend to be more intelligent, more charitable towards their neighbours and live, all in all, less violent lives and those lives impinge upon the lives of others to a lesser extent than those who wear their religion for all to see.
Basically, if you feel you need to say you are a christian or if you need to say you are a muslim, then you are not.

Life is too important to waste on superstitions. You don't get a second chance. Be nice to each other.
 
I'll agree with a couple things Lowaicue said:

"...if you need to say you are a christian ... you are not." (James 2:18)

"You don't get a second chance." (Hebrews 9:27)

I am a very fundamental Christian and I don't see anything wrong with what Yurt posted. But then I do not celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ. In fact, when I see those professing Christianity denying the roots of our modern day Christmas I cringe. Watch Bones (a good detective show on Fox) or Big Bang Theory ( a funny, risqué show on CBS) and in both of those programs this season and last, the main characters talked about the probability that Christ was born in the Spring months. The facts from the gospel narratives simply bear this out. The roots of the way we celebrate Christmas today are most definitely stemmed from paganism. The Winter Solstice and such and the way the heathen idol worshippers treated such and were attached to it...you can't deny it, at least if you're honest with yourself.

That said, I do put lights on my house this time of year...because I like Christmas lights. I mean, I'm not like Clark Griswald or anything but I do like lights. I even have a Christmas tree in my living room and it had gifts under it for my friends and family...because I like the tree and I like giving gifts, not because so many years ago trees meant something to some idol worshippers or because it's some sort of Freudian phallic symbol. I give em at Christmas time, for birthdays, and even for no reason throughout the year. The biggest thing for me is the time off from work that I get to spend with my family. My dad who turns 81 in February and my sister, brother-in-law and a single brother were here with us today. We ate, visited, watched Miracle on 34th Street and then some of us went out and had a good snowball fight. Fun stuff.
 
leaningright said:
I'll agree with a couple things Lowaicue said:

"...if you need to say you are a christian ... you are not." (James 2:18)

"You don't get a second chance." (Hebrews 9:27)

I am a very fundamental Christian and I don't see anything wrong with what Yurt posted. But then I do not celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ. In fact, when I see those professing Christianity denying the roots of our modern day Christmas I cringe. Watch Bones (a good detective show on Fox) or Big Bang Theory ( a funny, risqué show on CBS) and in both of those programs this season and last, the main characters talked about the probability that Christ was born in the Spring months. The facts from the gospel narratives simply bear this out. The roots of the way we celebrate Christmas today are most definitely stemmed from paganism. The Winter Solstice and such and the way the heathen idol worshippers treated such and were attached to it...you can't deny it, at least if you're honest with yourself.

That said, I do put lights on my house this time of year...because I like Christmas lights. I mean, I'm not like Clark Griswald or anything but I do like lights. I even have a Christmas tree in my living room and it had gifts under it for my friends and family...because I like the tree and I like giving gifts, not because so many years ago trees meant something to some idol worshippers or because it's some sort of Freudian phallic symbol. I give em at Christmas time, for birthdays, and even for no reason throughout the year. The biggest thing for me is the time off from work that I get to spend with my family. My dad who turns 81 in February and my sister, brother-in-law and a single brother were here with us today. We ate, visited, watched Miracle on 34th Street and then some of us went out and had a good snowball fight. Fun stuff.
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I good post. BUT I do worry when I read things like 'fundemental' in a religious context. It is that fundementalism that 'tends' to engender hatred between peoples.
We must learn to live as people, there is no room in sanity for any supernatural being.
I celebrate christmas and easter and annual holidays, I take time off and have a few beers or maybe a party at ching ming and CNY. I celebrate these breaks in the year because as a rational human, it pleases me to do so.
 
Started off this morning with a full English breakfast (I think we'll have that next year instead of the boring old turkey) followed by two chocolate truffles and, because it is nearly 11 am, I have just poured a wee snifter to see me through til lunch. This arvo our neighbours are holding a big barbie, it is unlikely that my general bonhommie will last that long so I'll probably stay at home and play with my new Samsung pad thingy or read my new C Hitchens book of essays.
My main prob is that I have a half bot of Graves from yesterday's lunch and a half bot of a nice red from a friend's chateau and the bottle of Tawny port is looking tempting. On top of that I have a six pack of Tsing Tao in the fridge which really must go before the weekend. We also have an invite to a local rooftop bar for this evening. (I think we'll do that instead of the barbie) And I am not a drinker!
More chocolates please.
 
Leaning right and Care4all are 2 real Christians on here I respect and possibly envy a bit.
True faith can be very comforting.
 
Lowaicue said:
There is no way that PMP or Dixie follow, or even attempt to follow, those teachings.
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seriously?.....why do you insist on posting things you have absolutely no knowledge about?......if those who eschew religion are the most intelligent, how can it be that you remain the most ignorant?.......
 
SuperstringTheory said:
You are making it personal claiming that these are just my assertions. I am referring to the consensus of historians. There just is not very good proof for the existence of Christ. You implied it was well documented and an accepted part of history.
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where did i say it was well documented or an accepted part of history.

saying they are your assertions has nothing to do with making it personal. you did in fact make assertions on your own as did i. we both cited others, generally, for authority.

i really don't see why you're getting emotional over this. you're being oversensitive.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
seriously?.....why do you insist on posting things you have absolutely no knowledge about?......if those who eschew religion are the most intelligent, how can it be that you remain the most ignorant?.......
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You spew hatred and derision everytime you park your fat arse in front of your computer. That is not Christian.
You label yourself a post modern prophet, that is not christian.
You have as much humanity in you as the mud of the Mississippi and probably less since there will certainly be remains there.
You then you reference the most ridiculous web sites that have ever been invented. American to the core and just as stupid.
Have a nice day, sir.
Oh, you have a right to call me ignorant, and I have the right not to give a shit.
 
cannabis said:
where did i say it was well documented or an accepted part of history.

saying they are your assertions has nothing to do with making it personal. you did in fact make assertions on your own as did i. we both cited others, generally, for authority.

i really don't see why you're getting emotional over this. you're being oversensitive.
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Of course it is well documented, but that does not lend truth to it. The House at Pooh Corner has been well documented and Peter Pan and, indeed Cinderella.
 
Lowaicue said:
Started off this morning with a full English breakfast (I think we'll have that next year instead of the boring old turkey) followed by two chocolate truffles and, because it is nearly 11 am, I have just poured a wee snifter to see me through til lunch. This arvo our neighbours are holding a big barbie, it is unlikely that my general bonhommie will last that long so I'll probably stay at home and play with my new Samsung pad thingy or read my new C Hitchens book of essays.
My main prob is that I have a half bot of Graves from yesterday's lunch and a half bot of a nice red from a friend's chateau and the bottle of Tawny port is looking tempting. On top of that I have a six pack of Tsing Tao in the fridge which really must go before the weekend. We also have an invite to a local rooftop bar for this evening. (I think we'll do that instead of the barbie) And I am not a drinker!
More chocolates please.
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And I remember waking early and silently exploring the pillowcase at the end of the bed for the first taste of Christmas. A chocolate orange that could be eaten without noise, a Mars bar to consume before being called for breakfast. Always a building set of some kind. There was something called Bayko (not sure of the spelling now) that you could build houses with and real metal Meccanno to build cranes and racing cars and to get a clip round the ear for when the nuts and bolts rattled up the hoover. There was always a board game, Ludo or Monopoly, one year I got Totopoly which I have not seen since. And then dressed and polished to visit our next door neighbours for sherry and mince pies, and an hour of sitting as still and silent as the dinosaur fossil in my new book and watching my father nudging my mother for a sign to go home before the photos came out.
Santa Clause made a mistake one year for he put in my pillow case a Hornby Double-O train set with the 'Duchess of Atholl' engine and carriages and enough rails to stretch round the lounge. It was a mistake because it was clearly intended for my father and my mother's brother and I didnt get to touch it til Christmas was a fading memory.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you are if you think those are rituals of the Christian religion...
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Yeah, that is not what I said. Can you stay on point? Christians practice those rituals and those rituals are what makes Christmas popular.

Again take your label, affix it to some other day and it will become meaningless. Christmas is what it is because of the pagan rituals associated with it.

And on another topic, I never bothered saying Merry Xmas because I see that as an attempt to exclude Christians. The word is meaningless to me and not a profession of faith. But Happy Holidays was always an attempt to include people of other faiths who celebrated in a different way, namely the Jews. Christians insist on turning it into something combative and being divisive. But they are just all pissy about the fact that the influence of their religion is waning.
 
Once again I find it amazing that those who have decided to not believe in God, spend so much time attempting to denigrate the belief of those that do believe in God.

I don't believe in Venutons; but it doesn't bother me if others choose to.

If I choose to believe and I discover that I was wrong, then I just wasted my time.
BUT
If you choose to not believe and then find out you're wrong; well then, you're wasted. :D
 
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