OWS movement: We've seen this before!

apple0154 said:
I explained this before. The "owner" is listed as the brother or wife or son but the same guy does the work. They have nothing to lose in bankruptcy as the "business" doesn't own anything worth while.



I'm not talking about an "authorized"dealer. Are you saying a guy can't buy windows from a window manufacturer, print up a business card and place an AD in the local paper saying he installs windows?



Have you not seen television programs showing people who were persuaded to remortgage their home when the lender knew they wouldn't be able to repay it?



Obviously you never watched the video "The Warning". I posted the link. Why do you insist on continuing to make a fool out of yourself?



The government can easily rectify the problem. Start by ensuring the people who open a business are qualified to do the work. Second, any money received from a business that goes bankrupt is returned. For example, let's say a restaurant goes bankrupt after one year. If the fridges and stoves are not paid for the supplier can probably repossess them but what about the people who supplied the food and billed on a monthly basis? The way things work now they will be out of luck if the business does not have collateral to cover the cost. The law should be changed so that if the restaurant owner drew a salary or made money over the year and, say, purchased a car the car is sold and the supplier is paid.

This idea of encouraging people to open their own business when they have no idea how to run a business is nonsense. Check out how many small businesses go bankrupt the first year. If they rented a space the landlord is out of luck. If the suppliers haven't been paid they are out of luck. If people bought a defective product or service they are out of luck. Meanwhile, if the company made money, at any time, the owner of the business gets to keep that money. That, my intelligence challenged friend, is what happens when companies that are LLC or INC (incorporated) or LTD (Limited) go bankrupt. While different countries have different designations that's the part of capitalism that can be corrected. It is nothing but a government supported system that risks, if not actually encourages, the rip off of fellow citizens.
Click to expand...

Try being responsible for the situations you put yourself in and stop crying for a nanny state government.
 
Bfgrn said:
Fannie and Freddie were not the cause of the financial collapse Dixie. Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/12/53802/private-sector-loans-not-fannie.html#ixzz1dWidL2nb

Fannie, a for-profit company, acted irresponsibly because it was seeking big profits just like other financial institutions. That's a very different proposition than bringing on the crisis. Dean Baker:

There's a small problem in this story. The worst junk mortgages that inflated the housing bubble to extraordinary levels were not bought and securitized by Fannie and Freddie, they were securitized by Citigroup, Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Lehman and the other private investment banks. These investment banks gobbled up the worst subprime and Alt-A garbage that sleaze operations like Ameriquest and Countrywide pushed on homebuyers.

The trillions of dollars that the geniuses at the private investment banks funneled into the housing market were the force that inflated the bubble to its 2006 peaks. Fannie and Freddie were followers in this story, jumping into the subprime and Alt-A market in 2005 to try to maintain market share. They were not the leaders.
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There seems to be a concerted campaign by the right to push the blame for the sub prime crisis away from the Wall Street casino banks and onto Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The ploy is totally transparent and disingenuous in equal measure.
 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
There seems to be a concerted campaign by the right to push the blame for the sub prime crisis way from the Wall Street casino banks and onto Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The ploy is totally transparent and disingenuous in equal measure.
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Of course, it fits conservative's agenda since man started walking upright; create an aristocracy.

From their perspective is HAS to be because Democrats created the ability for people with modest incomes to buy a home.

Just a one problem (actually more than one)

1) The financial crisis was not caused by low and middle income families buying a home.

2) It was not caused by dead beat poor people.

3) Fannie and Freddie were not to cause.

4) The Community Investment Act was not the culprit either.

The crisis was caused by private lending, to mostly upper middle class and the wealthy. ONLY 6% of of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas. The majority of those foreclosed on were wealthy and upper middle class, plus a large segment of buyers who were wealthy home flippers looking for a fast buck. They strategically walked away from their mortgages, leaving people who bought homes to live in with lower values on their house and neighborhood.

AND, what really sucks for the right wing propaganda of lies, all the way back to the late '90's there was one very outspoken and vocal critic of predatory lending practices, they even held protests at companies like Wells Fargo and Lehman Brothers...ACORN


WSJ - Fed’s Kroszner: Don’t Blame CRA

WSJ - Fed’s Kroszner: Don’t Blame CRA - The Sequel

Reuters - UPDATE 2-Lending to poor didn't spur crisis

Don't Blame the Community Reinvestment Act

Business Insider - Here's Why Fannie And Freddie Are Not At Fault For The Housing Bubble

Center for Responsible Lending - CRA is not to Blame for the Mortgage Meltdown

Don't blame Fannie and Freddie

Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

ForeclosureS.com - ACORN - Progress in the Fight Against Predatory Lending

Acorn Led Financial Sector With Warnings on Lending

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

The Millionaire Foreclosure Club

Foreclosure double standard: Why the rich get away with defaulting

More Rich People Default On Mortgages

The rich bail faster on mortgages

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

Rich Borrowers More Likely to Default on Mortgage

Foreclosures & Walking Away: 60 Minutes Eyes an ‘Epidemic’

Speculation By Investors Largely Cause Of Foreclosure Crisis

How the Foreclosure Crisis Started: Investors, Speculators, Mortgage Fraud & Lax Lending Standards


"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
 
Bfgrn said:
Of course, it fits conservative's agenda since man started walking upright; create an aristocracy.

From their perspective is HAS to be because Democrats created the ability for people with modest incomes to buy a home.

Just a one problem (actually more than one)

1) The financial crisis was not caused by low and middle income families buying a home.

2) It was not caused by dead beat poor people.

3) Fannie and Freddie were not to cause.

4) The Community Investment Act was not the culprit either.

The crisis was caused by private lending, to mostly upper middle class and the wealthy. ONLY 6% of of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas. The majority of those foreclosed on were wealthy and upper middle class, plus a large segment of buyers who were wealthy home flippers looking for a fast buck. They strategically walked away from their mortgages, leaving people who bought homes to live in with lower values on their house and neighborhood.

AND, what really sucks for the right wing propaganda of lies, all the way back to the late '90's there was one very outspoken and vocal critic of predatory lending practices, they even held protests at companies like Wells Fargo and Lehman Brothers...ACORN


WSJ - Fed’s Kroszner: Don’t Blame CRA

WSJ - Fed’s Kroszner: Don’t Blame CRA - The Sequel

Reuters - UPDATE 2-Lending to poor didn't spur crisis

Don't Blame the Community Reinvestment Act

Business Insider - Here's Why Fannie And Freddie Are Not At Fault For The Housing Bubble

Center for Responsible Lending - CRA is not to Blame for the Mortgage Meltdown

Don't blame Fannie and Freddie

Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis

ForeclosureS.com - ACORN - Progress in the Fight Against Predatory Lending

Acorn Led Financial Sector With Warnings on Lending

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

The Millionaire Foreclosure Club

Foreclosure double standard: Why the rich get away with defaulting

More Rich People Default On Mortgages

The rich bail faster on mortgages

Biggest Defaulters on Mortgages Are the Rich

Rich Borrowers More Likely to Default on Mortgage

Foreclosures & Walking Away: 60 Minutes Eyes an ‘Epidemic’

Speculation By Investors Largely Cause Of Foreclosure Crisis

How the Foreclosure Crisis Started: Investors, Speculators, Mortgage Fraud & Lax Lending Standards


"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
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Thanks for the links.
 
Bfgrn said:
AND, what really sucks for the right wing propaganda of lies, all the way back to the late '90's there was one very outspoken and vocal critic of predatory lending practices, they even held protests at companies like Wells Fargo and Lehman Brothers...ACORN
Click to expand...

??????...........ACORN was protesting that banks weren't loaning ENOUGH.......don't you recall the lawsuit ACORN brought against Citibank......the one where Obama was their legal council?.......you WERE aware of that, weren't you?........
 
Alias said:
Now people are dying at the Occupy sites. Don't forget folks, this movement has been embraced by the demonrat party.
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Y'know you are right!
People are also dying in hospitals. Lets start a movement to get rid of hospitals. Oh .. people are dying in their own homes, let's ban homes (not the one with the padded rooms that you inhabit). People are actually dying all over the place - some without warning. Definitely good cause to ditch the dems and raise the repubs... er... do republicans die? If so they should be banned too.
 
Bfgrn said:
What I'm aware of is that you fall perfectly in line with the know-nothing right.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/loans.asp
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you don't actually think anything in that article contradicts what I said, do you?.....

ACORN was protesting that banks weren't loaning ENOUGH........don't you recall the lawsuit ACORN brought against Citibank......the one where Obama was their legal council?
Click to expand...

Obama represented Calvin Roberson in a 1994 law suit against Citibank, charging the bank systematically denied mortgages to African-American applicants and others from minority neighborhoods
Click to expand...

now perhaps you could document your claim about ACORN protesting predatory lending in the 90s........
 
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Lowaicue said:
Y'know you are right!
People are also dying in hospitals. Lets start a movement to get rid of hospitals. Oh .. people are dying in their own homes, let's ban homes (not the one with the padded rooms that you inhabit). People are actually dying all over the place - some without warning. Definitely good cause to ditch the dems and raise the repubs... er... do republicans die? If so they should be banned too.
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And people are being mugged, raped, and robbed at the Occupy sites. It has degenerated and is now dangerous to your health. I really don't care. The longer it goes on, the worse it is for Dems.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you don't actually think anything in that article contradicts what I said, do you?.....





now perhaps you could document your claim about ACORN protesting predatory lending in the 90s........
Click to expand...


Yes...it contradicts EVERYTHING you said. ACORN is not listed as a plaintiff. Neither ACORN nor Obama filed the lawsuit. Obama was not the lead attorney in the case. He was a junior member of an 8 lawyer team that worked on the case.

ForeclosureS.com - ACORN - Progress in the Fight Against Predatory Lending

ACORN Led Financial Sector With Warnings on Lending
 
Alias said:
And people are being mugged, raped, and robbed at the Occupy sites. It has degenerated and is now dangerous to your health. I really don't care. The longer it goes on, the worse it is for Dems.
Click to expand...

My goodness! You are actually serious, aren't you. LOL. Think of all the tea party people whose squeals and screams of childish ecstacy are causing hearing problems to ordinary people. Then there are the republican sex maniacs who are breeding openly as if they are real people and the countless people who visit your shores only to fall in with typical Americans and to be hugged to death. Reckon we can blame it all on the black guy? Yeah. Let's do it. Are there degrees of crazy? Let's all be like you and jump off our respective trolleys. Hoorah, hooray it's the crazies' day!
 
Alias said:
And people are being mugged, raped, and robbed at the Occupy sites. It has degenerated and is now dangerous to your health. I really don't care. The longer it goes on, the worse it is for Dems.
Click to expand...

If you don't care then why the fuck do you keep banging on about it?
 
Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, has denounced “mobs” and “the pitting of Americans against Americans.”


The G.O.P. presidential candidates have weighed in, with Mitt Romney accusing the protesters of waging “class warfare,” while Herman Cain calls them “anti-American.”


My favorite, however, is Senator Rand Paul, who for some reason worries that the protesters will start seizing iPads, because they believe rich people don’t deserve to have them.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?_r=1
 
\(\(())/)/ said:
Eric Cantor, the House majority leader, has denounced “mobs” and “the pitting of Americans against Americans.”


The G.O.P. presidential candidates have weighed in, with Mitt Romney accusing the protesters of waging “class warfare,” while Herman Cain calls them “anti-American.”


My favorite, however, is Senator Rand Paul, who for some reason worries that the protesters will start seizing iPads, because they believe rich people don’t deserve to have them.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?_r=1
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The War of the Ipads. Sounds lkike a great title for a sci-fi movie. A solemn Repub narrator in the opening scene with ominous music playing.
 
Wall Street’s Masters of the Universe realize, deep down, how morally indefensible their position is.


They’re not John Galt; they’re not even Steve Jobs.


They’re people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose aftereffects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.

Yet they have paid no price.


Their institutions were bailed out by taxpayers, with few strings attached.


They continue to benefit from explicit and implicit federal guarantees — basically, they’re still in a game of heads they win, tails taxpayers lose.


And they benefit from tax loopholes that in many cases have people with multimillion-dollar incomes paying lower rates than middle-class families.




http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?_r=1
 
Bfgrn said:
Yes...it contradicts EVERYTHING you said. ACORN is not listed as a plaintiff. Neither ACORN nor Obama filed the lawsuit. Obama was not the lead attorney in the case. He was a junior member of an 8 lawyer team that worked on the case.

ForeclosureS.com - ACORN - Progress in the Fight Against Predatory Lending

ACORN Led Financial Sector With Warnings on Lending
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lol.....Obama filed a lawsuit on behalf of Calvin Roberson, with the support of ACORN, whose case was merged into a larger action....the links you provide give further support for what I have stated, including....

Ameriquest agreed to negotiate with ACORN in July 2000, and three months later signed an agreement to invest $360 million in an ACORN pilot program. In 10 cities, Ameriquest also agreed to make subprime loans with no prepayment penalties, no credit insurance, set a limit on points and fees at 3 percent of the loan amount, offered interest rates below the market standard, and agreed to loan counseling by ACORN Housing Corporation for every potential borrower.
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it is disingenuous to pretend that ACORN was taking action to PREVENT banks from loaning money to people who couldn't pay it back.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lol.....Obama filed a lawsuit on behalf of Calvin Roberson, with the support of ACORN, whose case was merged into a larger action....the links you provide give further support for what I have stated, including....



it is disingenuous to pretend that ACORN was taking action to PREVENT banks from loaning money to people who couldn't pay it back.......
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You are REALLY being disingenuous. So typical of right wingers. You are making shit up with NO proof. Obama DIDN'T file a lawsuit on behalf of Calvin Roberson, with the support of ACORN. He was not the lead attorney and ACORN was not a plaintiff. I guess the TRUTH just doesn't matter to zealots like you. Fox News and the right wing echo chamber told you what to say, and you're going to stick with it.

Ameriquest is NOT Citibank. The actions ACORN pressured Ameriquest to agree to were to protect consumers from shady practices. The loans to low income home buyers was never the problem, especially in 2000. Even during the height of the subprime fiasco, 6% went to low income CRA buyers.

You are making a strong case that you can't think, only parrot.
 
Bfgrn said:
You are REALLY being disingenuous. So typical of right wingers. You are making shit up with NO proof. Obama DIDN'T file a lawsuit on behalf of Calvin Roberson, with the support of ACORN. He was not the lead attorney and ACORN was not a plaintiff. I guess the TRUTH just doesn't matter to zealots like you. Fox News and the right wing echo chamber told you what to say, and you're going to stick with it.

Ameriquest is NOT Citibank. The actions ACORN pressured Ameriquest to agree to were to protect consumers from shady practices. The loans to low income home buyers was never the problem, especially in 2000. Even during the height of the subprime fiasco, 6% went to low income CRA buyers.

You are making a strong case that you can't think, only parrot.
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dude.....the information you are denying above is taken from YOUR links.....
 
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