One in five Americans has no religion

[Haiku]

They don't have a say....except if THEY are asked to finance those procedures....they have rights too, you do realize that don't you.

And whether they have abortions or not is irrelevant to this debate....if they want to be hypocrites, that too is irrelevant...

and again....no one is being denied their right to get an abortion.....Pregnancy is not a diease.....Catholics nor any other religion should not be obligated to pay for it ...thats THEIR RIGHT...
Their religious tenets have been in force for 2 thousand years....

That said, if they bitched about helping fund HIV or Cancer research, I'd be on your side....

In your bizarre world nothing would be funded but the church....you'd make sure of that.

 

[Haiku]

I believe that Carl Sagan is dead.

He was not a believer...

 

[NOVA]

Abortion is ot the only issue here religion wishes to deny people their rights, it is also books, music, who you love, just to name a few.????

Strawman bs.....

You can write a book about anything you want....
You can love anyone in anyway you want.....with age restrictions, mental capacity, etc.....
and You can sing any songs you want.....

Who the hell can stop you today.....unless you're disturbing the peace...

No rights are absolute.....NONE....and that should include abortions.....

 

[NOVA]

In your bizarre world nothing would be funded but the church....you'd make sure of that.

Explain that load of crap you just unloaded......government don't fund any church to my knowledge, nor do they levy a tax on that freedom of expression...


By the way...I'm an admitted agnostic and haven't practiced a religion in 50 years.....so I don't even have a dog in the fight.
I just go by our Constitution....

 

[Phantasmal]

They don't have a say....except if THEY are asked to finance those procedures....they have rights too, you do realize that don't you.

And whether they have abortions or not is irrelevant to this debate....if they want to be hypocrites, that too is irrelevant...

and again....no one is being denied their right to get an abortion.....Pregnancy is not a diease.....Catholics nor any other religion should not be obligated to pay for it ...thats THEIR RIGHT...
Their religious tenets have been in force for 2 thousand years....

That said, if they bitched about helping fund HIV or Cancer research, I'd be on your side....

Pregnancy has killed far more than erectile
dysfunction, pregnancy is not a disease, but it is a condition that can result in death.

Women want their insurance fir which they pay premiums to cover birth control. You keep distorting the facts.

 

[NOVA]

Pregnancy has killed far more than erectile
dysfunction, pregnancy is not a disease, but it is a condition that can result in death.

Women want their insurance fir which they pay premiums to cover birth control. You keep distorting the facts.

Many things can and do cause death, that doesn't make them a disease.....

If you want that coverage, PAY FOR IT....its not the taxpayers responsibility, thats the point.
and you're the one that can't separate medicine from contraception...they are not one and the same, though some pill (chemical) might work for both....
one covered, the other not.

 

[Timshel]

What a desperate stretch.....and the rest, irrelevant as it is to your claims.... you can figure it out for yourself......I know I don't reveal myself as a Conservative at all....

It's not a stretch at all. You were asking why someone might not feel safe in revealing their views. I gave you several VALID reasons. Why don't you show us all how unreasonable it is to fear answering by revealing to us the information a pollster (that is, some stranger on a phone) would have?

Can you explicitly identify your supposed gotcha so that I can respond in a relevant way? Just because some poll questions might skew a certain way does not mean all will.

You don't reveal yourself as much of anything. Which makes it all the more absurd that you would find it hard to believe that an atheist might not want to share his opinion. You do seem to make apologies for those that routinely stigmatize certain groups and complain when it is done to the white male religious majority. I will continue to TRY to avoid making assumptions about your views, but I may lose my patience again.

 

[Timshel]

They don't have a say....except if THEY are asked to finance those procedures....they have rights too, you do realize that don't you.

And whether they have abortions or not is irrelevant to this debate....if they want to be hypocrites, that too is irrelevant...

and again....no one is being denied their right to get an abortion.....Pregnancy is not a diease.....Catholics nor any other religion should not be obligated to pay for it ...thats THEIR RIGHT...
Their religious tenets have been in force for 2 thousand years....

That said, if they bitched about helping fund HIV or Cancer research, I'd be on your side....

NO, THEY HAVE NOT. The Catholic Church, for most of its existence argued that life did not begin until the quickening, i.e., when the mother starts to feel the baby move. They are not consistent in the idiotic and unworkable notion that life should be recognized at conception now.

I would agree that they should not be forced to fund anything. That does not extend to insurance requirements of employees in non-ecclesiastical functions. There is absolutely no reason to give the Catholic Church an exemption on that.

 

[Phantasmal]

Many things can and do cause death, that doesn't make them a disease.....

If you want that coverage, PAY FOR IT....its not the taxpayers responsibility, thats the point.
and you're the one that can't separate medicine from contraception...they are not one and the same, though some pill (chemical) might work for both....
one covered, the other not.

I did not call it a disease.

You are an idiot that ignores facts.

 

[NOVA]

NO, THEY HAVE NOT. The Catholic Church, for most of its existence used to argue that life did not begin until the quickening, i.e., when the mother starts to feel the baby move. They are not consistent in the idiotic and unworkable notion that life should be recognized at conception now.

I would agree that they should not be forced to fund anything. That does not extend to insurance requirements of employees in non-ecclesiastical functions. There is absolutely no reason to give the Catholic Church an exemption on that.

So the Roman Church is over arguing with science....good. You gonna nit-pick the details to death....
That doesn't change their belief in the sanctity of life as they call it....I'm not familiar with the particulars (the details or extent of their scientific knowledge) or the beliefs of 2000 years ago.....or if it matters in the least.....EVERYONE has learned to deal with todays state of scientific knowledge, and will surely have to deal even more in the future.
but yes, they have made some changes to dogmatic details.....

By the same token they are forced by law to hire non-Catholics aren't they, non-discrimination laws......do you dictate to you employer what your insurance MUST cover ....I think not....
nor should the government dictate.....if you want something special, something not offered, pay for that portion yourself....isn't that fair enough ?

We are talking about a Constitutional right .... the very first Amendment to that document.....freedom to practice you religion without government interference....a right now being chipped away at and eroded by 'progressive thinking'......

 

[Timshel]

So the Roman Church is over arguing with science....good.

That doesn't change their belief in the sanctity of life as they call it....I'm not familiar with the particulars of the beliefs of 2000 years ago.....or if it matters in the least.
but yes, they have made some changes to dogmatic details.....
By the same token they are forced by law to hire non-Catholics aren't they......do you dictate to you employer what your insurance MUST cover ....I think not....
nor should the government dictate.....if you want something special, something not offered, pay for that portion yourself....isn't that fair enough ?
We are talking about a Constitutional right .... the very first Amendment to that document.....freedom to practice you religion without government interference....a right now being chipped away at and eroded by 'progressive thinking'......

The government dictates to ALL employers what their insurance plans must cover.

Yes, we are talking about the first amendment. It's being chipped away at by pinheads who have a confused understanding of it similar to the one expressed by Herman Cain, before he was widley ridiculed for his ignorance.

Why should ONE church get an exemption on ONE issue giving them a competitive advantage in the marketplace and how does that not violate the first? Why shouldn't anyone that claims to hold a religious view get such exemptions and why is only limited to abortion/homosexual rights issues?
Should all religions get a small exemption to wage an hour laws for their tithing requirements? That's a heck of a lot more clearly stated in the bible than is any reference to abortion or homosexuality.

Why is it okay to tax Quakers to fund the war machine? Why is it okay to tax different types of pacifist for a large number of government services? What did Jesus say about that? Oh yeah, it does not support your SPECIAL abortion exception so we should just ignore it right?

Do you support the Jah Rastafarians having exemptions to drug laws? Can Mitt Romney take another wife? What about all the exemptions Scientolgist will have to be afforded in medical coverage? No, those are all too new and cultish? How about Native American spiritualist and their use of drugs as sacrament? No, they are too small a group? What are the threshholds?

I am guessing, you are going to get upset, demand that I am being silly and that THIS is different without actually explaining how.

Any exceptions to the law must be universally applicable, regardless of the church and regardless of the issue. I don't have a problem with ecclesiastical exemptions, i.e., no female priests, but that should be the limit. If it is not a job intricately related to the religious views there should be no exceptions.

 

[NOVA]

Roughly 1,231 companies received waivers from parts of the healthcare reform law, the Health and Human Services Department (HHS) says.......
Labor unions representing 543,812 workers received waivers from parts of President Barack Obama‘s signature legislation...........

and you're gonna bitch and moan about churches getting some imaginary competitive advantage in the marketplace ?.....
Give me a freakin' break....

Quakers enjoy the freedom they have from the government protections they live under and does
everyone....no different than taxes for fire or police protection.....that issue has been resolved long ago....

and no, not all religious views deserve exemption.....nor are exemptions to law universally applicable or acceptable.....
We live under OUR Constitution, not some universal sets of standards that YOU find acceptable....

Get used to it....sometimes life just isn't fair....especially with the orthodoxy and traditions we have
established as a country.....their are limits.

This is the real world, not some fictitious Shangri-la or Utopia........not a game for amateur philosophers...

 

[Timshel]

You are so incredibly incoherent, inconsistent and wishy washy. Gonna have to break this down

Roughly 1,231 companies received waivers from parts of the healthcare reform law, the Health and Human Services Department (HHS) says.......
Labor unions representing 543,812 workers received waivers from parts of President Barack Obama‘s signature legislation...........

and you're gonna bitch and moan about churches getting some imaginary competitive advantage in the marketplace ?.....
Give me a freakin' break...

Do you have any examples of these waivers? No, just a talking point you heard on Rush?

Here is what I find...

The waivers are for so-called mini-med plans that offer annual coverage limits. They were outlawed by ObamaCare and are scheduled to be regulated out of existence in 2014.

However, such plans are often the only form of health insurance available to workers and without the waivers most would no longer be available.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/more-1300-obamacare-insurance-waivers-granted-says-gao

Relevance to the issues we are discussing? Absolutely none.

Quakers enjoy the freedom they have from the government protections they live under and does
everyone....no different than taxes for fire or police protection.....that issue has been resolved long ago....

The Quakers issue and the issue of various pacifists was resolved in a way that is not consistent with your demands here. That is, they don't get an exemption. So why should Catholics?

and no, not all religious views deserve exemption.....nor are exemptions to law universally applicable or acceptable.....

And you think this is consistent with the first? So the first protects the religious views of SOME on SOME issues? Now who is chipping away at the first again?

We live under OUR Constitution, not some universal sets of standards that YOU find acceptable....

Our Consitution IS a universal set of standards I find acceptable. Sorry, you don't. Tough shit, pinhead!

 

[Haiku]

Abortion is ot the only issue here religion wishes to deny people their rights, it is also books, music, who you love, just to name a few.????

Strawman bs.....

You can write a book about anything you want....
You can love anyone in anyway you want.....with age restrictions, mental capacity, etc.....
and You can sing any songs you want.....

Who the hell can stop you today.....unless you're disturbing the peace...

No rights are absolute.....NONE....and that should include abortions.....

Books are banned, they tried to ban certain kinds of music and video games, movies, tv programs etc. They go batshit crazy over wardrobe mishaps and claim they are being attacked because they can't lead prayers and pass out bibles in schools across America. So now they have a stealth mission to evangelize schools across America...everywhere...and it will be guided by adults and carried out by children. Liars for Jesus is alive and well.

It's the culture war and it's been waged by the right wing nutters for going on 40 years...your the one using strawmen and pretending this isn't happening. Those on the left aren't forcing anyone to believe anything...we teach children to think for themselves and that is what you and yours find so threatening because your version of fundamentalist blather requires closed minds. That's why you can homeschool your little clones but I won't fund your insane teachings. The church has plenty of money. Stay out of our health classes, science classes and history classes. Stay the hell out of our public libraries as well.

Your rights end where my body starts. Get real, you want a government that is big enough to police women.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

One in five Americans has no religion

Four in five Americans HAVE religion.

Thanks

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Books are banned, [when. which ones?] they tried to ban certain kinds of music [when?] and video games [when?], movies [when?], tv programs [when?] etc. They go batshit crazy over wardrobe mishaps [intentional indecent exposure passed off as a 'wardrobe malfunction' during a Super Bowl halftime show] and claim they are being attacked because they can't lead [voluntary] prayers and pass out bibles [when, where?] in schools across America. So now they have a stealth mission to evangelize schools across America [where?]...everywhere...[nope, not here.] and it will be guided by adults and carried out by children. Liars for Jesus is alive and well. [Looks like Liars Against Jesus is vibrant as well!]

It's the culture war and it's been waged by the right wing nutters for going on 40 years...[other way around] your the one using strawmen [no, you are] and pretending this isn't happening. [it's not happening.] Those on the left aren't forcing anyone to believe anything...[yes, you want to] we teach children to think for themselves [no you don't, you forbid them being taught things you disagree with] and that is what you and yours find so threatening [you find God threatening] because your version of fundamentalist blather requires closed minds. [because Atheism requires a closed mind] That's why you can homeschool your little clones but I won't fund your insane teachings. [then we don't need to fund your Atheist public-schooled heathens] The church has plenty of money. Stay out of our health classes, science classes and history classes. Stay the hell out of our public libraries as well. [They don't belong to you, sorry.]

Your rights end where my body starts. [No, rights don't end, the Constitution guarantees them] Get real, you want a government that is big enough to police women. [And you want Atheist government]

Now go fuck yourself, trollshit!

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Catholics don't have to have abortions, no one is forcing them to abort, although many Catholics do have abortions, just like Republucans have abortions, but the Catholics should not have a say in other choices. This is what is so hypocritical, people who claim to be religious do things in private that they will not admit to in public. I know of several women who had abortions when they were teenagers that would not tell their current congregations that they had one.

Abortion is ot the only issue here religion wishes to deny people their rights, it is also books, music, who you love, just to name a few.

abortion isn't a religious issue....there are lots of folks who don't attend churches who think its a bad idea to kill unborn children......some of them post here......if you're looking for people who've forced their beliefs on others, look to the ones who've kicked smokers out of bars, lightbulbs out of houses, gasoline out of cars, 32 oz soft drinks out of cities......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

In your bizarre world nothing would be funded but the church....you'd make sure of that.

actually, I don't recall that bravo was that religious......you realize you're speaking out of ignorance again, right?......

 

[Timshel]

abortion isn't a religious issue....there are lots of folks who don't attend churches who think its a bad idea to kill unborn children......some of them post here......if you're looking for people who've forced their beliefs on others, look to the ones who've kicked smokers out of bars, lightbulbs out of houses, gasoline out of cars, 32 oz soft drinks out of cities......

You mean the Republican mayors of New York? Or are you more bothered with Bush's light bulb law? I don't know what you are talking about with the gasoline but maybe you are referring to the subsidies Grover Norquist wouldn't budge on?

 

[Timshel]

You mean the Republican mayors of New York? Or are you more bothered with Bush's light bulb law? I don't know what you are talking about with the gasoline but maybe you are referring to the subsidies Grover Norquist wouldn't budge on?

Oops, there I go with my stigmatizing ridicule again. I am sorry pmp. For shame for shame...

I should be more polite, like Dixie.