On what legal authority did trump bomb then syrian military?

I have mixed feelings. Dead muslimes=good. However Congress should declare war. The left are irrelevant I. This conversation as they would criticize Trump no matter whst
 
anatta said:
If you think of how Russia was humiliated by NATO expansion-
and the promises of Putin to be another Perter the Great type..coupled with his sucessful international gambits..
his popularity does have a base
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The people are starving. The economy is the tank. He might have a base, but those polls you are talking about are GARBAGE.

and what does the opposition offer? "democracy?/reform?" the same thing Yelsin offered.
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Who really cares? The guy has controlled the country for 16+ years and now they are sucking shit in a big way. The Press isn't free, the people aren't free.

So by default Putin's numbers are high. I'm no expert on this -but it's commonly noted without objection Putin has support
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By people who love Putin.

indeed.

agreed/ "look to the battlefield" as I mentioned
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Well then Tillerson is either talking out of his ass about meaningless negotiations or you have regime change by force. Right now all we have is a limited strike against an airfield.

What next?
 
Element-22-Cat said:
The people are starving. The economy is the tank. He might have a base, but those polls you are talking about are GARBAGE.
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no. I gave you some reasoning -you can dig in here
How Authentic is Putin’s Approval Rating?
http://www.stopfake.org/en/how-authentic-is-putin-s-approval-rating/
Putin’s approval ratings have changed considerably over the 15 years he has been in power. Between 2009 and 2014 he lost about a third of his supporters, but 2014 was a turning point due to extraordinary circumstances.
All indicators show that attitudes toward Putin improved. Today, his image is back to that of Putin before the 2008 economic crisis.,,,

this happens because, for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the annexation of Crimea made Russians feel like they were a superpower again (80% of respondents agreed with this statement in spring 2014).

Most Russians are unable or unwilling to shake off the intoxicating illusion of national grandeur.

Finally, the key instrument for securing Putin’s base of support is the policy of sustaining social stability. This is particularly important given that almost half the Russian population believes that they would have a difficult time surviving without government assistance.

Another factor that helps guarantee support for the regime is that there are no real alternatives
Who really cares? The guy has controlled the country for 16+ years and now they are sucking shit in a big way. The Press isn't free, the people aren't free.
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Russian nationalism doesn't depend on a free press, nor a western style democracy

Well then Tillerson is either talking out of his ass about meaningless negotiations or you have regime change by force. Right now all we have is a limited strike against an airfield.

What next?
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stay tuned. negotiations are not going to tell the tale
 
anatta said:
no. I gave you some reasoning -you can dig in here
How Authentic is Putin’s Approval Rating?
http://www.stopfake.org/en/how-authentic-is-putin-s-approval-rating/
Putin’s approval ratings have changed considerably over the 15 years he has been in power. Between 2009 and 2014 he lost about a third of his supporters, but 2014 was a turning point due to extraordinary circumstances.
All indicators show that attitudes toward Putin improved. Today, his image is back to that of Putin before the 2008 economic crisis.,,,
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The article nicely stops in 2014. What happened afterwards? You know when their economy tanked big time. Really, believe what you want, but nobody in an actual democracy would remain in power like Putin for 16+ years on his record.

Again, those polls are garbage.

this happens because, for the first time since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the annexation of Crimea made Russians feel like they were a superpower again (80% of respondents agreed with this statement in spring 2014).

Most Russians are unable or unwilling to shake off the intoxicating illusion of national grandeur.

Finally, the key instrument for securing Putin’s base of support is the policy of sustaining social stability. This is particularly important given that almost half the Russian population believes that they would have a difficult time surviving without government assistance.

Another factor that helps guarantee support for the regime is that there are no real alternatives
Russian nationalism doesn't depend on a free press, nor a western style democracy
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There are no real alternatives because Putin doesn't exactly tolerate alternatives.

stay tuned. negotiations are not going to tell the tale
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The ball is in Trump's court.
 
Element-22-Cat said:
The article nicely stops in 2014. What happened afterwards? You know when their economy tanked big time. Really, believe what you want, but nobody in an actual democracy would remain in power like Putin for 16+ years on his record.

Again, those polls are garbage.

There are no real alternatives because Putin doesn't exactly tolerate alternatives.

The ball is in Trump's court.
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jesus you can give me a headache..lol

The sanctions do hurt, but the underlying factors stayed the same after Crimea.
I can only FIND that regarding the polls -but AGAIN the polls are considered fairly reliable -
show me where they aren't..Polls are consistent -the trends are too ( as described)

I gave you the reasoning. to your point about "nobody would stay in power for 16 years" doesn't look at the unique situation of Russia. Of course not having a viable opposition does advantage Putin " you can't beat something with nothing"

"The ball" is on the battlefield -nothing has changed from Obama to Trump in this case
 
anatta said:
jesus you can give me a headache..lol
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Then don't post a popularity assessment of Putin that talks about 2014 when the Russian economy crashed in 2015 and is still struggling to get out of recession.

The sanctions do hurt, but the underlying factors stayed the same after Crimea.

I can only FIND that regarding the polls -but AGAIN the polls are considered fairly reliable -
show me where they aren't..Polls are consistent -the trends are too ( as described)

I gave you the reasoning. to your point about "nobody would stay in power for 16 years" doesn't look at the unique situation of Russia. Of course not having a viable opposition does advantage Putin " you can't beat something with nothing"
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Well all of the "unique situation of Russia" is that it is not a real democracy, it is a glorified one party rules dictatorship run by Putin. When Putin couldn't run again for President in 2008 what does he do? Makes his deputy prime minister a puppet president and then takes the roll of Prime Minister and resumes full control.

"The ball" is on the battlefield -nothing has changed from Obama to Trump in this case
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But Trump has suddenly changed the goal posts. Before it was an internal Syrian issue that the US should stay the hell out it. That was reiterated just last week by the administration's two major foreign policy players.

Now suddenly, years into a brutal war that has killed thousands of civilians there is some sort of humanitarian approach, or at least we are expected to believe so.
 
cawacko said:
I remember the 2012/2013 debate on here after Assad gas babies the first time and Obama's red line statement and Desh was for the U.S. retaliating. She didn't discuss if we needed legal authority to do so however. I guess now that matters.
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Was there ever anything more than conjecture re. the use of chemical weapons? I don't remember pictures of an attack. Just claims that he 'might' have used chemical weapons.
 
Element-22-Cat said:
In other words Russia doesn't have legitimate democratic elections. It's basically a one party system with Putin at the head. So just because you have an election it doesn't make it an actual democratic election.

The barrel bombs have been going on for years.... why now? Only a week ago both Tillerson and Haley took regime change in Syria "off the table". Whether international law in Syria is squishy is irrelevant to the fact Assad has "crossed the line" many times and Trump was dead set against attacking Syria. He warned that many very bad things would happen if they attacked Syria and yet here we are.

And yes, what next? Tillerson has been talking tough, regime change talk. Blowing up on airport runway hasn't altered the reality of the Syrian civil war.
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This ain't the old days, when we install out puppet either. Regime change in that region opens the door to 'survival of the best armed'.
 
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NOVA said:
Obama said that he asked Congress postpone the vote to wait for a diplomatic solution.
60 democrats would vote no on Obamas request....with 151 undecided on how they would vote.

“I have therefore asked the leaders of Congress to postpone a vote to authorize the use of force while we pursue this diplomatic path."
...Obama.

Bush up a little on your facts counselor...
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What was your position in 2013?
 
Jarod said:
What was your position in 2013?
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When even the Democrats didn't fully support Obama in 2013, and not being privy to the facts and intell that congress has, I'm reluctant to second guess them.

Of course Obama didn't really need congressional approval to respond to Assad's use of WMD anyway....he certainly didn't get congressional approval to
attack Lybia, but its in any president's favor to get the approval of congress before using military force as a general rule....

With 20/20 hindsight, Obama should have responded without approval because of 'red line' remark...you can't draw lines in the sand and then ignore them.....but thats water
under the bridge....
Glad Sen. Schumer backed Trump on his quick action in Syria though.
 
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