Oil reaches Louisiana shores: News in pictures

Onceler said:
Like I said, I'm totally cool with nat. gas as a stop-gap. I understand that it won't happen in a year or 2, but I still think decades is a mischaracterization.

It's not accurate to say it took decades for computers. Yes, computers were around for ages before offices standardized, but once the internet started to become an influential market force, and business started to be done through email, it was under a decade before the infrastructure was updated to accommodate the change.
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Not really, I've worked in the industry for the entire time. Starting at Compuserve and ending here at one of the biggies...

I've worked in this industry for more than 22 years watching it grow and expand. It took decades to reach this point.

We are in agreement about almost everything here, except time line, and that is the least important part to get this started.

From 14.4 baud modems to fast ethernet, to voice over IP, I've been here, part of it.
 
it would take a decade to just ramp up nat gas as a stop gap. Electric charging stations are decades away for sure. It's always the anti-business liberals that think you can just flip a switch.
 
Onceler said:
No question. Washington can start by ignoring the oil lobby. I don't believe in punitive things like higher emission standards and other restrictions. I do believe in elevated funding for R & D and new domestic technologies.

Technology development is exponential. We are not that far off from solutions that can harness renewables more efficiently for mass consumption; price will go down as this becomes less of a niche market.
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How bout this one. Slap an excise tax on gasoline consumption so that the price stays permenently at $4 to $5/gallon with the tax revenue to be used to pay down the national debt and finance alternative energy research. It would discourage consumption of oil and encourage growth of alternative energy and get us off the oil tit that much quicker.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How bout this one. Slap an excise tax of gasoline consumption so that the price stays permenently at $4 to $5/gallon with the tax revenue to be used to pay down the national debt and finance alternative energy research. It would discourage consumption of oil and encourage growth of alternative energy and get us off the oil tit that much quicker.
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and rich progressives will love it, the other 90% of us living in the real world will throw you off the pompus bridge your yelling from.:clink:
 
Topspin said:
it would take a decade to just ramp up nat gas as a stop gap. Electric charging stations are decades away for sure. It's always the anti-business liberals that think you can just flip a switch.
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I'm not anti-biz, and I certainly don't think you can just flip a switch. I just think that the characterization of decades, or the idea that maybe we can start to transition mid-century, ignores history.

Technology development throughout history has been exponential, and has generally occurred much faster than the "experts" thought it could before the change took place, whether you're talking about transportation, medicine, industrialization in general, computers, etc.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How bout this one. Slap an excise tax on gasoline consumption so that the price stays permenently at $4 to $5/gallon with the tax revenue to be used to pay down the national debt and finance alternative energy research. It would discourage consumption of oil and encourage growth of alternative energy and get us off the oil tit that much quicker.
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Ugh...really?
 
Onceler said:
Like I said, I'm totally cool with nat. gas as a stop-gap. I understand that it won't happen in a year or 2, but I still think decades is a mischaracterization.

It's not accurate to say it took decades for computers. Yes, computers were around for ages before offices standardized, but once the internet started to become an influential market force, and business started to be done through email, it was under a decade before the infrastructure was updated to accommodate the change.
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Think about the email... when it first came out in the late 80's early 90's it was not used very much. It took almost a decade just for that to become prevalent.

Look at cell phones... how many people used them in the late 80's? Even in the mid 90's many people wouldn't use them because of the crappy coverage. Now everyone has one and land lines are becoming a thing for fax machines (if that).
 
Superfreak said:
1) End all subsidies to oil
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Agreed

2) Cut waste out of defense spending
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How about we just cut Defense spending period. We spend far to much on national defense.

3) End farming subsidies
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Agree, how about ending all corporate welfare?

4) Drill nat gas sites in US
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Agreed but it will take a lot more then that. Vehicles will have to be produced that consume nat gas or other alternative energy forms and the infrastructure to supply that energy at wholesale and retail level will have to be built.

I'll go you one step further. Since our nation post cold war security issue is our dependence of foreign oil that we institute a draconian consumption tax on oil/gasoline. Use that revenue plus the revenue gained from cutting the programs you suggest, particularly defense to pay down our national debt and to develop alternative energy and it's infrastructure.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How bout this one. Slap an excise tax on gasoline consumption so that the price stays permenently at $4 to $5/gallon with the tax revenue to be used to pay down the national debt and finance alternative energy research. It would discourage consumption of oil and encourage growth of alternative energy and get us off the oil tit that much quicker.
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That would be an economy killing tax, not to mention one of the most regressive taxes you could think of.... only a dumbass from Ohio would think that is a good idea.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Agreed

How about we just cut Defense spending period. We spend far to much on national defense.

Agree, how about ending all corporate welfare?

Agreed but it will take a lot more then that. Vehicles will have to be produced that consume nat gas or other alternative energy forms and the infrastructure to supply that energy at wholesale and retail level will have to be built.

I'll go you one step further. Since our nation post cold war security issue is our dependence of foreign oil that we institute a draconian consumption tax on oil/gasoline. Use that revenue plus the revenue gained from cutting the programs you suggest, particularly defense to pay down our national debt and to develop alternative energy and it's infrastructure.
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Wow... you caught on to the fact that for nat gas transportation to work, that nat gas vehicles will need to be made? AND infrastructure to support it would need to be built out? Nothing gets by you.

No... I think the oil tax is a bad idea. It kills the economy's growth potential and is highly regressive.

As for defense spending... no, I would not cut it completely.
 
Onceler said:
Ugh...really?
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LOL I didn't say it would be popular! It would work though. $5/gallon gas would discourage consumption of oil/gas and encourage both the development and building of new energy sources and it's infrastructure. We saw that with the post Katrina rise in gasoline prices. We also saw how quickly that was forgotten when gasoline dropped to $2.50/gallon.

Maybe it is time to consider this? Our addiction to foreign oil is the gravest security threat this nation has.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
LOL I didn't say it would be popular! It would work though. $5/gallon gas would discourage consumption of oil/gas and encourage both the development and building of new energy sources and it's infrastructure. We saw that with the post Katrina rise in gasoline prices. We also saw how quickly that was forgotten when gasoline dropped to $2.50/gallon.

Maybe it is time to consider this? Our addiction to foreign oil is the gravest security threat this nation has.
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retarded in many ways, first taxes are already all up the gas chain. Second you punish the poor, third Opec could shoot you down like a wwII plane with $1 gasoline halfway thru your plan.
 
Superfreak said:
Wow... you caught on to the fact that for nat gas transportation to work, that nat gas vehicles will need to be made? AND infrastructure to support it would need to be built out? Nothing gets by you.

No... I think the oil tax is a bad idea. It kills the economy's growth potential and is highly regressive.

As for defense spending... no, I would not cut it completely.
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Bull shit. It didn't kill the economy post Katrina. You're just a cheap bastard who's all talk. That's why I get sick of these conversation. You're just not serious. You're all talk. Everyone loves a solution that aint gonna cost them anything. Well guess what? It doesn't exist. If this change isn't driven by the government artificially reducing demand for oil by increasing the price then it's just a matter of time before the market will do it eventually.

So why not be proactive? You're position is a serious national security threat cause you're being camplacent, cause your cheap, and are willing to accept the security threat foreign oil represents cause your to short sighted to get off the tit.

Must come from burying your head in the snow up there in michigan or did you have it buried somewhere else?
 
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Topspin said:
retarded in many ways, first taxes are already all up the gas chain. Second you punish the poor, third Opec could shoot you down like a wwII plane with $1 gasoline halfway thru your plan.
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Again, I realize that this is ufairly regressive taxation but as a national security measure is it neccessary to get us off the tit? As for Opec. Let them cut the price. We can keep the cost of gas at a standard price by bridging the gap with taxes. The more they cut price, the more revenue we get back from all those years of transfering our wealth to them! I mean Fuck OPEC!
 
Superfreak said:
Wow... you caught on to the fact that for nat gas transportation to work, that nat gas vehicles will need to be made? AND infrastructure to support it would need to be built out? Nothing gets by you.

No... I think the oil tax is a bad idea. It kills the economy's growth potential and is highly regressive.

As for defense spending... no, I would not cut it completely.
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They don't need to be "made", you can convert any car to natural gas.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
LOL I didn't say it would be popular! It would work though. $5/gallon gas would discourage consumption of oil/gas and encourage both the development and building of new energy sources and it's infrastructure. We saw that with the post Katrina rise in gasoline prices. We also saw how quickly that was forgotten when gasoline dropped to $2.50/gallon.

Maybe it is time to consider this? Our addiction to foreign oil is the gravest security threat this nation has.
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It's a huge nat'l security threat, and I think most are on board with that at this point. However, that doesn't mean that funds should be raised on the backs of the poor & middle class.

When prices for gas climbed before, it put a tremendous strain on working families, that was fairly unsustainable. It hurts the most vulnerable. I would not support it.
 
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