Obesity (My Sincere Apologies For Pulling A Jarod)

cawacko

cawacko

Well-known member
On the toys in the happy meal McDonald's thread we were discussing obesity which I believe deserves a thread of its own.

If obesity is tied to our health care costs that we all pay for (that was the claim) what role should government play or how far should government go in helping to reduce obesity?

Should the government go so far as to ban fast food type establishments? Or should government be allowed to dictate what type of food fast food establishments serve? (fast food obviously isn't the only cause of obesity but it definitely plays a role) Would eliminating marketing help limit fast food consumption?

Kids and sugar cereals and sodas are another obesity causing problem.

I watched a South Park episode two nights ago where Cartman get sent to Fat Camp. Should all overweight children be sent to something like that?

I just throwing out some random things but my sincere question is how involved should government get in attempting to deal with obesity?
 
I always have a hard time arguing w/ anyone who says it's none of the gov't's business what we eat.

However, you make a good point - Obesity is something we all end up paying more money for. And it's an epidemic in America - as we get more obese as a nation, it only continues to affect the amount that all of us pay.

I can't see the gov't banning fast food establishments, but I think there is more of a role there than people are probably comfortable with now - healthier school lunches, promoting better alternatives to fast food, whatever...
 
This was why I said that government shouldn't be in the business of health care. When it becomes their "duty" to "save money" on your care they can issue any number of decrees getting into your quality of life. For some, quality of life may be determined by the enjoyment of foods that may be banned to "save society" from having to pay for them.
 
Onceler said:
I always have a hard time arguing w/ anyone who says it's none of the gov't's business what we eat.

However, you make a good point - Obesity is something we all end up paying more money for. And it's an epidemic in America - as we get more obese as a nation, it only continues to affect the amount that all of us pay.

I can't see the gov't banning fast food establishments, but I think there is more of a role there than people are probably comfortable with now - healthier school lunches, promoting better alternatives to fast food, whatever...
Click to expand...

For example I happen to agree that at a government (public) school that gives out free lunches to needy students those lunches ought to be healthy. And the government could say we require healthy lunches to be served at all public schools.

Are we really going to be able to restrict what an adult eat's though? That seems far more challenging.
 
cawacko said:
For example I happen to agree that at a government (public) school that gives out free lunches to needy students those lunches ought to be healthy. And the government could say we require healthy lunches to be served at all public schools.

Are we really going to be able to restrict what an adult eat's though? That seems far more challenging.
Click to expand...

Can't see it.

Maybe they could give a tax break for % of body fat....
 
cawacko said:
On the toys in the happy meal McDonald's thread we were discussing obesity which I believe deserves a thread of its own.

If obesity is tied to our health care costs that we all pay for (that was the claim) what role should government play or how far should government go in helping to reduce obesity?

Should the government go so far as to ban fast food type establishments? Or should government be allowed to dictate what type of food fast food establishments serve? (fast food obviously isn't the only cause of obesity but it definitely plays a role) Would eliminating marketing help limit fast food consumption?

Kids and sugar cereals and sodas are another obesity causing problem.

I watched a South Park episode two nights ago where Cartman get sent to Fat Camp. Should all overweight children be sent to something like that?

I just throwing out some random things but my sincere question is how involved should government get in attempting to deal with obesity?
Click to expand...

Why not? They get to tell you about smoking, what toys can go in Happy Meal lunches, why not this? I think the liberals should be able to see the full force of their decision to allow the government to run people's lives.

For reals.... As soon as you start taking the liberal porker's sugar cereal, Ho-ho's, Ding-Dongs and Twinkies away, there's going to be trouble in River City!
 
Damocles said:
This was why I said that government shouldn't be in the business of health care. When it becomes their "duty" to "save money" on your care they can issue any number of decrees getting into your quality of life. For some, quality of life may be determined by the enjoyment of foods that may be banned to "save society" from having to pay for them.
Click to expand...

Quality of life Damo...how do think having someone in your family diagnosed with a life threatening illness, or being involved in a serious accident, and then being told by your insurance company who you've paid decades of premiums to that the illness of injury is not covered. How would that effect your quality of life? Suddenly every penny you have saved is not enough to cover the treatments, medicines for a month, much less long term medical treatment.

It is something that has happened to thousands of Americans.

Do yourself a favor. Invest a half hour watching this interview. The man's name is Wendell Potter. He is a former CIGNA executive with 15 years experience in the health insurance industry. I doubt you will come away with the same ideas about the subject.

Profit Before Patients - Wendell Potter

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI[/ame]
 
cawacko said:
On the toys in the happy meal McDonald's thread we were discussing obesity which I believe deserves a thread of its own.

If obesity is tied to our health care costs that we all pay for (that was the claim) what role should government play or how far should government go in helping to reduce obesity?

Should the government go so far as to ban fast food type establishments? Or should government be allowed to dictate what type of food fast food establishments serve? (fast food obviously isn't the only cause of obesity but it definitely plays a role) Would eliminating marketing help limit fast food consumption?

Kids and sugar cereals and sodas are another obesity causing problem.

I watched a South Park episode two nights ago where Cartman get sent to Fat Camp. Should all overweight children be sent to something like that?

I just throwing out some random things but my sincere question is how involved should government get in attempting to deal with obesity?
Click to expand...

And you said nothing good could come out of San Francisco's law. Would you have posted this thread or would anyone be having this discussion if that law didn't stimulate debate?

Imagine this is being discussed in thousands of other places.


The great French Marshall Lyautey once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow growing and would not reach maturity for 100 years. The Marshall replied, 'In that case, there is no time to lose; plant it this afternoon!'
President John F. Kennedy
 
Bfgrn said:
And you said nothing good could come out of San Francisco's law. Would you have posted this thread or would anyone be having this discussion if that law didn't stimulate debate?

Imagine this is being discussed in thousands of other places.


The great French Marshall Lyautey once asked his gardener to plant a tree. The gardener objected that the tree was slow growing and would not reach maturity for 100 years. The Marshall replied, 'In that case, there is no time to lose; plant it this afternoon!'
President John F. Kennedy
Click to expand...

Not really much a debate going on here and yes I've read several different discussion boards all mocking San Francisco.

Edit: And what debate is being had is not over obesity but the government's role in regulating private enterprise like this.
 
instead of forcing corps to get rid of toys with meals....if the issue is cost to society....why don't you tax any parent with a special obese tax if their child is obese...?
 
Wasn't someone gonna sue McDonalds for making them fat and then McDonalds was forced to or did so out of their own free will, remove the trans fat that was in their fries?

Should the government care? Yes. Does it? Not if it affects the bottom line(profits).

I think Insurance companies are putting pressure. Many of these guys that smoke, drink and are obese that have insurance plans? Are really draining the insurance companies with all their ailments. And causing insurance costs to rise.

That is why some companies were refusing to employ people that smoke, on the grounds they couldn't afford to ensure them. Would it be acceptable to Americans that obese people, and smokers, and drinkers pay a higher premium?I remember smokers fuming over this idea......

If it wasn't for the insurance companies? The American Government wouldn't care because more sick people means more profit and taxes for the rich.

The problem is not only fast foods, but inactivity. Most parents wont let their kids out of the house because they are scared. Not to mention they sit on their butts all day and play video games or are on the computer.

The government should care about the health of its citizens and should encourage healthy lifestyles and activity programs.

In Canada they promote a healthy lifestyle because the healthier the people are, the less drain they are to the health care. And the more money for them.
 
Yurt said:
instead of forcing corps to get rid of toys with meals....if the issue is cost to society....why don't you tax any parent with a special obese tax if their child is obese...?
Click to expand...

I'd send you a pos rep, but you have sent me so many neg reps that it wouldn't register on your rep power.
 
Onceler said:
I always have a hard time arguing w/ anyone who says it's none of the gov't's business what we eat.

However, you make a good point - Obesity is something we all end up paying more money for. And it's an epidemic in America - as we get more obese as a nation, it only continues to affect the amount that all of us pay.

I can't see the gov't banning fast food establishments, but I think there is more of a role there than people are probably comfortable with now - healthier school lunches, promoting better alternatives to fast food, whatever...
Click to expand...

Which is EXACTLY the problem. Go back to the way it used to be. Individuals paying for their own health care costs. High deductible plans that covered catastrophic needs, but didn't pay for the day to day needs. This way health care costs don't bankrupt the individual and insurance premiums remain low for most Americans.

For those that choose to eat like shit and not exercise... they get to pay higher premiums. Just like those who choose to smoke do.

For those will cancer, etc... Let the government focus on a government run plan for them. There is no need for the government to be involved otherwise.

In addition, we need to cap claims for cases that do not involve gross negligence. We as a society cannot expect doctors to be perfect. Pretending that they should be only drives up the costs of health care for all of us.

That said... you are correct, we should be promoting healthy choices, develop web sites that guide people who want to eat healthy while also maintaining a budget (despite the crap we hear, this IS possible).

People who say you can't eat healthy on $3 day don't know what they are talking about. You may not LIKE the food. You may WANT to eat food that 'tastes better to you', but is an outright lie that you cannot eat healthy AND do so inexpensively.
 
wiseones2cents said:
Wasn't someone gonna sue McDonalds for making them fat and then McDonalds was forced to or did so out of their own free will, remove the trans fat that was in their fries?

Should the government care? Yes. Does it? Not if it affects the bottom line(profits).

I think Insurance companies are putting pressure. Many of these guys that smoke, drink and are obese that have insurance plans? Are really draining the insurance companies with all their ailments. And causing insurance costs to rise.

That is why some companies were refusing to employ people that smoke, on the grounds they couldn't afford to ensure them. Would it be acceptable to Americans that obese people, and smokers, and drinkers pay a higher premium?I remember smokers fuming over this idea......

If it wasn't for the insurance companies? The American Government wouldn't care because more sick people means more profit and taxes for the rich.

The problem is not only fast foods, but inactivity. Most parents wont let their kids out of the house because they are scared. Not to mention they sit on their butts all day and play video games or are on the computer.

The government should care about the health of its citizens and should encourage healthy lifestyles and activity programs.

In Canada they promote a healthy lifestyle because the healthier the people are, the less drain they are to the health care. And the more money for them.
Click to expand...
So you think that smokers, drinkers, and obese people are a drain on Ins. Co. and causing rates to rise...is that about it?

"Would it be acceptable to Americans that obese people, and smokers, and drinkers pay a higher premium?"
Well should they ???

"more sick people means more profit and taxes for the rich."
Hows that work ???
 
Bfgrn said:
Quality of life Damo...how do think having someone in your family diagnosed with a life threatening illness, or being involved in a serious accident, and then being told by your insurance company who you've paid decades of premiums to that the illness of injury is not covered. How would that effect your quality of life? Suddenly every penny you have saved is not enough to cover the treatments, medicines for a month, much less long term medical treatment.

It is something that has happened to thousands of Americans.

Do yourself a favor. Invest a half hour watching this interview. The man's name is Wendell Potter. He is a former CIGNA executive with 15 years experience in the health insurance industry. I doubt you will come away with the same ideas about the subject.

Profit Before Patients - Wendell Potter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QwX_soZ1GI
Click to expand...
You were wrong. Just because somebody does something that you or I may disagree with doesn't mean that I think a government takeover is the answer. It's silly to go from one extreme to the other based on something like this. Does it mean that I think people should overpay for insurance? No. Does it mean that we should give in to the collective and have them telling us what and when we can eat? No. Seriously, it is this type of black/white mentality that makes people think the US voter is stupid.
 
bravo said:
So you think that smokers, drinkers, and obese people are a drain on Ins. Co. and causing rates to rise...is that about it?
Click to expand...


They are the major ones that can be avoidable.

"Would it be acceptable to Americans that obese people, and smokers, and drinkers pay a higher premium?"
Well should they ???
Click to expand...


I believe they should pay more.
"more sick people means more profit and taxes for the rich."
Hows that work ???
Click to expand...

Well.... if they are buying fast food, they are spending money and paying taxes. If they are getting sick, they are feeding the privatized health care system and racking in lots of money.
 
Damocles said:
You were wrong. Just because somebody does something that you or I may disagree with doesn't mean that I think a government takeover is the answer. It's silly to go from one extreme to the other based on something like this. Does it mean that I think people should overpay for insurance? No. Does it mean that we should give in to the collective and have them telling us what and when we can eat? No. Seriously, it is this type of black/white mentality that makes people think the US voter is stupid.
Click to expand...

Are you going to watch the video?
 
I'd also like to add that this toy business is foolish. Kids don't buy McDonalds because of toys. They buy it because McDonalds is good at marketing themselves. They spend millions a year. My kids would jump up and down at the mere mention of McDonalds. Not because of the toys but because of the commercials.
 
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