Obamas budget impossible without HUGE middle class tax increases

KingCondanomation

New member
Obama just talks about taxing the rich BUT even if you taxed the rich (people who make over $500,000) at 100% you still would not have enough to close the deficit. And that's just at 2006 estimates of the rich, obviously with this recession there will be far fewer rich.
Bush's spending was bad but this is beyond the insane, massive tax increase, massive budget deficits adding to already huge debt all in the name of progressive social WELFARE programs like universal healthcare.

"President Obama has laid out the most ambitious and expensive domestic agenda since LBJ, and now all he has to do is figure out how to pay for it. On Tuesday, he left the impression that we need merely end "tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans," and he promised that households earning less than $250,000 won't see their taxes increased by "one single dime."


APThis is going to be some trick. Even the most basic inspection of the IRS income tax statistics shows that raising taxes on the salaries, dividends and capital gains of those making more than $250,000 can't possibly raise enough revenue to fund Mr. Obama's new spending ambitions.

Consider the IRS data for 2006, the most recent year that such tax data are available and a good year for the economy and "the wealthiest 2%." Roughly 3.8 million filers had adjusted gross incomes above $200,000 in 2006. (That's about 7% of all returns; the data aren't broken down at the $250,000 point.) These people paid about $522 billion in income taxes, or roughly 62% of all federal individual income receipts. The richest 1% -- about 1.65 million filers making above $388,806 -- paid some $408 billion, or 39.9% of all income tax revenues, while earning about 22% of all reported U.S. income.

Note that federal income taxes are already "progressive" with a 35% top marginal rate, and that Mr. Obama is (so far) proposing to raise it only to 39.6%, plus another two percentage points in hidden deduction phase-outs. He'd also raise capital gains and dividend rates, but those both yield far less revenue than the income tax. These combined increases won't come close to raising the hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue that Mr. Obama is going to need.

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But let's not stop at a 42% top rate; as a thought experiment, let's go all the way. A tax policy that confiscated 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning over $500,000 in 2006 would only have given Congress an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue. That's less than half the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion and looks tiny compared to the more than $4 trillion Congress will spend in fiscal 2010. Even taking every taxable "dime" of everyone earning more than $75,000 in 2006 would have barely yielded enough to cover that $4 trillion."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

Call, write, email, whatever and stop these spending increases that are leaving future generations crushed in debt and the current generation with big tax increases with spending that largely encourages people to work less.
 
....

He is borrowing.
Sigh.
THIS year, what about next or the next? At some point he has to pay for it, when he does, tax increases only on the rich will not even come close to being able to pay for his lofty spending.

Remember that Obama's spending is not just on some dumb war that will end some day, his biggest increase is with healthcare, where government has a tendency to do nothing but consume more and more forever.

Medicaid and Medicare are set to consume double what they do in GDP by 2050, how much do you think we will pay for the Vietnam war by then?

Social welfare spending is higher, permanent and consistently balloons, defence spending is lower, temporary and decreases in certain times.
 
Why is the assumption that the only way to pay for something is through taxes?

How much are wars costing us? How about inefficiency? How about some of the archaic methods used for healthcare?

I wish people would read all of this plans before shooting from the hip like this.
 
Reagan proved the defecit did not matter.


Lets just do a moderate increase on the top 25% or so.
The middle class will not have much to tax for a while.
 
Obama just talks about taxing the rich BUT even if you taxed the rich (people who make over $500,000) at 100% you still would not have enough to close the deficit. And that's just at 2006 estimates of the rich, obviously with this recession there will be far fewer rich.
Bush's spending was bad but this is beyond the insane, massive tax increase, massive budget deficits adding to already huge debt all in the name of progressive social WELFARE programs like universal healthcare.

"President Obama has laid out the most ambitious and expensive domestic agenda since LBJ, and now all he has to do is figure out how to pay for it. On Tuesday, he left the impression that we need merely end "tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans," and he promised that households earning less than $250,000 won't see their taxes increased by "one single dime."


APThis is going to be some trick. Even the most basic inspection of the IRS income tax statistics shows that raising taxes on the salaries, dividends and capital gains of those making more than $250,000 can't possibly raise enough revenue to fund Mr. Obama's new spending ambitions.

Consider the IRS data for 2006, the most recent year that such tax data are available and a good year for the economy and "the wealthiest 2%." Roughly 3.8 million filers had adjusted gross incomes above $200,000 in 2006. (That's about 7% of all returns; the data aren't broken down at the $250,000 point.) These people paid about $522 billion in income taxes, or roughly 62% of all federal individual income receipts. The richest 1% -- about 1.65 million filers making above $388,806 -- paid some $408 billion, or 39.9% of all income tax revenues, while earning about 22% of all reported U.S. income.

Note that federal income taxes are already "progressive" with a 35% top marginal rate, and that Mr. Obama is (so far) proposing to raise it only to 39.6%, plus another two percentage points in hidden deduction phase-outs. He'd also raise capital gains and dividend rates, but those both yield far less revenue than the income tax. These combined increases won't come close to raising the hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue that Mr. Obama is going to need.

The Opinion Journal Widget
Download Opinion Journal's widget and link to the most important editorials and op-eds of the day from your blog or Web page.
But let's not stop at a 42% top rate; as a thought experiment, let's go all the way. A tax policy that confiscated 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning over $500,000 in 2006 would only have given Congress an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue. That's less than half the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion and looks tiny compared to the more than $4 trillion Congress will spend in fiscal 2010. Even taking every taxable "dime" of everyone earning more than $75,000 in 2006 would have barely yielded enough to cover that $4 trillion."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

Call, write, email, whatever and stop these spending increases that are leaving future generations crushed in debt and the current generation with big tax increases with spending that largely encourages people to work less.


The Wall Street Journal unsigned op-eds are pure unadulterated horseshit. I haven't the time to shot this crap down now, but I'm sure someone will and I will gladly post it.

As a general rule, I assume almost everything I have occasion to read in the unsigned op-eds is crap until I'm proven otherwise. Hasn't failed me yet.
 
Why is the assumption that the only way to pay for something is through taxes?

How much are wars costing us? How about inefficiency? How about some of the archaic methods used for healthcare?

I wish people would read all of this plans before shooting from the hip like this.
The Iraq war costs $100 billion per year. Obama has a $1.75 TRILLION deficit.

The government is more efficient on healthcare?!? Can you name something the government has been more efficient on?
Take education, the cost per student is cheaper in private schools even though they get better results.
Why would government be more efficient? They have far less accountability and worry over controlling costs.
 
The Wall Street Journal unsigned op-eds are pure unadulterated horseshit. I haven't the time to shot this crap down now, but I'm sure someone will and I will gladly post it.

As a general rule, I assume almost everything I have occasion to read in the unsigned op-eds is crap until I'm proven otherwise. Hasn't failed me yet.

Post different numbers if you believe different. If anything as I noted they are being more generous to the Dems because they are using the 2006 tax returns of the rich, rather than the much lower tax returns of the rich that will exist in this year and proceeding ones.
 
hey dude we left the bush presidency with about a 10 trillion dollar debt.
Then bush tacked on 800 bill more as he went out the door.

Take away the hedge fund managers tax breaks. They got enough tax breaks to fund CHIPS.
also they helped a great deal to create this mess. they deserve no tax breaks to do it again.
 
Why is the assumption that the only way to pay for something is through taxes?

How much are wars costing us? How about inefficiency? How about some of the archaic methods used for healthcare?

I wish people would read all of this plans before shooting from the hip like this.

are you actually discussing cutting spending??
 
"The government is more efficient on healthcare?!? Can you name something the government has been more efficient on?"

Dano - this is pathetic. PATHETIC. It only comes from your mindset, which is warped.

NO ONE is talking about a gov't takeover of healthcare. Ergo, the premise that I'm somehow implying that the "gov't is more efficient" is a total strawman.

Obama is talking about updating some of the technologies & processes WITHIN the industry, still run privately, btw.

Grow up.
 
Reagan proved the defecit did not matter.
Did Reagan have a deficit anywhere close to this bad?
dc.jpg



Lets just do a moderate increase on the top 25% or so. The middle class will not have much to tax for a while.
The problem is overspending, it's been the same problem for nearly 8 years, only now it's even worse, solution is to CUT spending.
 
Did Reagan have a deficit anywhere close to this bad?
dc.jpg




The problem is overspending, it's been the same problem for nearly 8 years, only now it's even worse, solution is to CUT spending.


Hey Einstein, run the numbers in that chart using the methods used by the Obama administration then tell me what you come up with,
 
"The government is more efficient on healthcare?!? Can you name something the government has been more efficient on?"

Dano - this is pathetic. PATHETIC. It only comes from your mindset, which is warped.

NO ONE is talking about a gov't takeover of healthcare. Ergo, the premise that I'm somehow implying that the "gov't is more efficient" is a total strawman.

Obama is talking about updating some of the technologies & processes WITHIN the industry, still run privately, btw.

Grow up.

He is just talking about updating technologies and processes?!? You think he wants $634 BILLION just to do that?

Please, PLEASE read what his own admin says what the health spending is for:

"President Obama is proposing to begin a vast expansion of the U.S. health-care system by creating a $634 billion reserve fund over the next decade, launching an overhaul that most experts project will ultimately cost at least $1 trillion.

The "reserve fund" in the budget proposal being released today is Obama's attempt to demonstrate how the country could extend health insurance to millions more Americans and at the same time begin to control escalating medical bills that threaten the solvency of families, businesses and the government.

Obama aims to make a "very substantial down payment" toward universal coverage by trimming tax breaks for the wealthy and squeezing payments to insurers, hospitals, doctors and drug manufacturers, a senior administration official said yesterday."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/25/AR2009022502587_pf.html
 
Obama has made no illusions about the fact that re-vamping healthcare will cost upfront, for a payoff down the road. Do you know how much preventative care alone will save us in the long run?

I'm tired of explaining this to you. You have no concept of ROI. You make fun of me for saying "pennywise, pound foolish" all the time, but it defines you to a T.

You know. most businesses have to spend money before they make it, Dano. As someone who expounds upon the virtues of capitalism so often, I would expect you to understand that.
 
they bitch like little girls under Clinton and we wound up with the largest surplus in our lifetime.
Clinton did increase taxes on the middle class.
But let's examine things a bit more closely.

In the first 2 years of Clinton where the Democrats had the presidency, house and senate the debt went up by
$628,129,254,491.66 ($4,692,749,910,013.32 at end of 1994 minus 4,064,620,655,521.66 at end of 1992) or $314,064,627,245.83 per year.

In the next 6 years of Clinton's terms, Republicans controlled the house and senate and the debt went up by $981,428,299,873.54 ($5,674,178,209,886.86 at end of 2000 minus 4,692,749,910,013.32 at end of 1994) or
$163,571,383,312.26 per year
We know this was because they cut welfare, government and subsidies.


So, again when the Republicans controlled the house and senate in the 90's, the debt went up by only $163,571,383,312.26 per year, while when the Democrats controlled everything in the 90's, the debt went up by almost double at $314,064,627,245.83 per year.

All figures shown here:
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdhisto4.htm

It would seem we have been lied to by Democrats who believed they were the ones fiscally responsible, when proven by the numbers they were clearly NOT.

Now the current Republicans are spending bad, but once again the current Democrats, like the current Republicans, have moved even further left and are still proposing more spending. So the Republicans have been bad at spending in the last few years, but the Democrats are worse.
 
Obama himself projects it at $1.75 trillion, is he lying to hurt himself?

"That would result in a record deficit Obama projects will hit $1.75 trillion,"
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96JCFLG1&show_article=1


What I am telling you is that Obama's projection of what the deficit will be includes very expensive "off-budget" items (Iraq and Afghanistan wars, for example) that are not included in any of the previous deficit projections. The chart is misleading.
 
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