Obamacare, Max Baucus, and the price Democrats will pay for both
- Thread starter blackascoal
- Start date
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
The model is Truman good brother.
If republicans stood in the way, Obama could have taken a good healthcare plan to the American people. Had Obama had the intelligence to support Medicare-for-All, he could have forced republicans to stand against expanded Medicare for all Americans .. Medicare being one of the most popular programs in American history .. infrastructure and functionality already in place.
What we know for sure is that the course Obama took has been a disaster.
But Obama IS a corporatist, thus, he did what was in the best interests of his corporate masters and went behind closed doors and made a deal with Big Pharma in DIRECT CONTRAST to what he said he would do on the campaign trail .. and democrats never held him to account for it.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You're not listening.
He could have taken a good bill to the American people and put republicans under the gun.
Most Americans supported SP and real heathcare REFORM.
You keep running from the 'C' word.
Obama is a Corporatist. Didn't Monsanto tell you anything?
I think that if history teaches us anything, it's that (1) heath care reform is an incrementalist game and (2) waiting for a better deal does not work, you take what you can get when you can get it.
Also, too, if Truman were the model then why didn't Wagner-Murray-Dingell pass then or ever?
Also, too, if Truman were the model then why didn't Wagner-Murray-Dingell pass then or ever?
If that was the case, why wasn't the background checks bill passed?
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Because it didn't .. but at least Obama supporters saw him fighting for their cause. What's plan B?
Obama did the same thing on the fiscal cliff issue .. took his case to the American people.
Obama takes his case to people for "fiscal cliff" deal
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/10/us-usa-fiscal-obama-idUSBRE8B30W920121210
... and according to Lindsey Graham, he won.
LINDSEY GRAHAM: OBAMA ‘WON’ FISCAL CLIFF DEAL, AND ‘HATS OFF’ TO HIM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ma-won-fiscal-cliff-deal-and-hats-off-to-him/
To suggest that a president taking his case to the American people has no merit is a demonstration in a lack of historical perspective.
If taking the case to the American people for were an effective model for getting single-payer healthcare passed, we would have had it a long, long, long time ago. Given the history, waiting for a better time doesn't work.
Cancel 2016.11
Darla
But it moves the conversation to the left. That's how the right has moved everything so far right. Do you disagree with that?
There are things in this bill that are good, children covered longer under parents, hospital follow up of patients, etc, but I agree with you that it has inhibited the single payor issue.
Good point
I don't see it producing a better outcome. The Max Baucuses and Joe Liebermans, whose votes are necessary to pass anything, don't give a shit. If public sentiment were all that important the expanded background check bill would have passed the Senate.
I have no problem with criticism of Obama from the left on a whole host of issues, but I think the idea that Obama could have gotten single-payer passed and shouldn't have passed the ACA is bullshit.
Billy the Great Khan
Uwaa OmO
It invites no one. It compelles under penalty of law.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
You keep running from the 'C' word brother.
Obama IS a corporatist. Care to have a discussion that he isn't?
Obama went into the White House with a mandate for producing a good healthcare bill. No other president has walked into the White House with such a mandate. During the 2008 campaign, even republicans were forced to produce their own healthcare plans.
Romney .. that very same '47%' Mitt Romney .. the same one republicans ran for president .. produced the model for Obamacare.
What history has already demonstrated is that the course Obama took .. the one that you agree to .. produced one of the greatest turnovers of the House in American history. It produced a healthcare plan so flawed that the American people have never supported it. That's a historical first for a government plan that was supposedly designed for the American people.
.. AND, support is going to sink even further as people start to recognize the true costs and burden of the ACA.
The most telling aspect of Obama's terms in office has been the incredible lack of critical analysis and principled stand by democrats. All the noise about how unintelligent and lacking in consciousness the Tea Party was has been demonstrated to just par for the course by democrats.
Did you know that the NRA had more to say about what went into Obamacare than his supporters did?
If you're wondering about background checks .. you should go check what's in Obamacare.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Yes it does.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
ROFLMAO... you know what state he is from?
He is retiring because:
1) He is old
2) He knows Obamacare is going to start blowing up next year
3) He is old
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
a beginning to the end of government interference in health care
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
How The Pro-Gun Lobby Snuck Extra Protections For Gun Owners Into Obamacare
This month’s deadly rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School has sparked a national conversation about improving gun control laws and the woeful state of America’s mental health care system. Fortunately, Obamacare will address the latter by increasing access to mental health services through its Medicaid expansion and state-wide health exchanges — but Kaiser Health News reports that a little known NRA-backed provision in the health law may undermine the former.
Inserted into the Affordable Care Act at the request of pro-gun, NRA-backed Majority Leader Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV), the Obamacare subsection titled “Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights” makes it illegal for wellness and better-living programs to require “the disclosure or collection of any information relating to… the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or… the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.” The provision also prohibits insurers from using a patient’s gun possession status in order to determine premium rates.
Supporters might argue that gun ownership is a personal choice, and that patients should have a right to privacy from providers and insurers on such a matter. But critics say the provision stifles meaningful dialogue between providers and patients on an issue that undeniably has implications for public health and medical costs.
As University of Pennsylvania social policy professor Susan Sorenson puts it, “A lot of people buy guns every year, and it’s a health concern… To regulate what the provider can or can’t do really intrudes into the role of the health care provider, which is to ensure the health of the individual and the people who are living in that home.”
And Obamacare doesn’t extend this privacy to other costly lifestyle choices. Last month, the Obama administration issued a rule allowing insurers to consider patients’ smoking histories when setting their premium rates. Gun violence costs Americans $5.6 billion in annual medical bills, but the totals are actually closer to $100 billion per year — the same number that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that smoking costs Americans each year in medical costs — when accounting for lost productivity.
The fact that such a provision found its way into the health care law without so much as a mention from the media or national politicians underscores the far reach of the gun lobby’s influence. Sen. Reid, who quietly requested the addition, has a solid “B” rating from the NRA, and the influential lobbying group — which overwhelmingly supports Republicans — declined to weigh in on his 2010 re-election campaign.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/201...bby-obamacare-provision-gun-owners/?mobile=nc
This month’s deadly rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School has sparked a national conversation about improving gun control laws and the woeful state of America’s mental health care system. Fortunately, Obamacare will address the latter by increasing access to mental health services through its Medicaid expansion and state-wide health exchanges — but Kaiser Health News reports that a little known NRA-backed provision in the health law may undermine the former.
Inserted into the Affordable Care Act at the request of pro-gun, NRA-backed Majority Leader Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV), the Obamacare subsection titled “Protection of Second Amendment Gun Rights” makes it illegal for wellness and better-living programs to require “the disclosure or collection of any information relating to… the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or… the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.” The provision also prohibits insurers from using a patient’s gun possession status in order to determine premium rates.
Supporters might argue that gun ownership is a personal choice, and that patients should have a right to privacy from providers and insurers on such a matter. But critics say the provision stifles meaningful dialogue between providers and patients on an issue that undeniably has implications for public health and medical costs.
As University of Pennsylvania social policy professor Susan Sorenson puts it, “A lot of people buy guns every year, and it’s a health concern… To regulate what the provider can or can’t do really intrudes into the role of the health care provider, which is to ensure the health of the individual and the people who are living in that home.”
And Obamacare doesn’t extend this privacy to other costly lifestyle choices. Last month, the Obama administration issued a rule allowing insurers to consider patients’ smoking histories when setting their premium rates. Gun violence costs Americans $5.6 billion in annual medical bills, but the totals are actually closer to $100 billion per year — the same number that the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that smoking costs Americans each year in medical costs — when accounting for lost productivity.
The fact that such a provision found its way into the health care law without so much as a mention from the media or national politicians underscores the far reach of the gun lobby’s influence. Sen. Reid, who quietly requested the addition, has a solid “B” rating from the NRA, and the influential lobbying group — which overwhelmingly supports Republicans — declined to weigh in on his 2010 re-election campaign.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/201...bby-obamacare-provision-gun-owners/?mobile=nc
I'm assuming he is a corporatist because, frankly, I have no inclination to defend him against the charge. I still don't see how single-payer gets through the Senate given the corporatists there, including but not limited to Joe Lieberman and Max Baucus, whose votes were critical in getting it passed.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
:0) Just say it brother. You'll feel better.
Obama is a corporatist .. not because you don't have the inclination to defend him against the charge .. it's because you can't defend him against it. Unlike when he rolled into the White House in 2008, he now has a record by which he can be rationally judged by .. AND, he walked into the White House door with Tim Geithner and Larry Summers.
Say it with me .. Obama is a corporatist .. :0)
.. and only a dreamer would expect a good health care reform bill from a corporatist.
Cancel 2016.11
Darla
Oh I agree with you on both counts, I just feel he should have advocated for single payer.