Socrtease
Verified User
I am not now, nor have I ever been, a religious man. But after reading this all I can say is AMEN.
Obama will observe Confederate Memorial
- Thread starter Cancel 2018. 3
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Of course they were traders. That is why they were so adamantly opposed to the tariffs levied by the Federal government, one of the leading causes of secession.
No, they didn't. It was a peaceful secession.
If Washington, Jefferson and Adams were terrorists, then yes, according to your logic.
From the Brittish perspective they were terrorists.
It was, I remember there was a thread on it.
To take up arms against your nation makes you a traitor. Maybe justifiabily but a traitor none the less. They took up arms against the American Flag. How many American flags did they burn?
This coming from a man who has two peices of Jefferson Davis's bedroom furnature in my house.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
That's because it WAS business! The United States Supreme Court had ruled that slaves were property... the Southern farmer didn't rule this, the US Supreme Court did. Yes, it was ungodly evil, and the US government condoned and sanctioned it for way too long. I've not denied slavery was barbaric and evil, just that it was not the sole fault of Southern plantation owners, they were simply doing what the law of the land allowed.
That is because my response was addressing someone who wants to cast all blame for slavery onto the South, and that is patently unfair and dishonest. I'm not the one who is "revising history" here, I am telling it like it was, and some people don't like to hear how it really was. They had rather continue believing the myth, that Southerners are responsible for slavery and that was why they fought the Civil War. That notion is absurd on it's face, because we've already discussed how it was obviously apparent slavery would soon end. The issue went much deeper than slavery itself, that has been my only point. I would also like to point out, not a single Confederate soldier ever owned a slave. Most of them didn't even know anyone who owned a slave. My ancestors fought and died for the Confederacy, and to be honest, they weren't much better off than the slaves! In fact, the slaves knew they had a roof over their head and where their next meal would come from, my ancestors often did not. My grandmother raised 7 kids through the Great Depression by PICKING COTTON.... for whom? For a BLACK sharecropper! If it had not been for the grace of that black man giving her a job, they would have starved to death.
Now, that is MY family history, and you think I am going to sit here and let a bunch of snot-nose adolescents reinterpret history? You people need to stop and think about this, consider that people are all different, no stereotype fits universally, and you simply can't paint all Southerners with this broad "racist" brush and walk away. I understand you are bitter, I understand you need to blame someone, but blame the US Supreme Court, blame the US Congress, blame the 15 presidents before Lincoln, who sat by and did nothing but to continue condoning and supporting slavery!
No, I am sorry, it didn't ALL take place in the South! Slavery was predominate in the South for what reason? ...C'mon, we just went over this! Because cotton grows well in the South, and slaves are how cotton was harvested. It's not because Southern people were racists who thought black men deserved to be enslaved and Northern people opposed it. Violence against blacks is not confined to the South, the most violent incidents since the Civil War, have been in Northern cities, and racial tension exists to this day in places like LA and NY. To try and pretend racial discrimination is confined to "those racist Southerners" is just plain dishonest.
With all due respect, I have never "ignored" a thing! In fact, in my previous post, I admitted the South was not innocent, and I have never claimed they were. I'm not in denial of that, I understand the South was just as guilty as anyone else, my point of contention is when the South starts getting ALL the blame, as if the rest of the country was in vehement disagreement with slavery, that just wasn't the case. This entire country condoned and supported slavery! The reason there was an Underground Railroad, the reason slaves had to "escape" to the north, is because the US Government had established LAWS to keep them enslaved!
I know all about the history of the Civil War. As I said, I have two ancestors who fought and died in it. I know what the truth is, and I know it's not being told, with regard to slavery and the Civil War. It is the ultimate revisionist history, to contend that Abraham Lincoln engaged the South in Civil War to end slavery. It is preposterous to suggest the South fought the most bloody war of our nation's history, to preserve an institution which even the most ignorant could understand, was on it's way out. And it's just an outright lie, to pretend the US didn't condone slavery up until the Civil War.
I don't need absolution. My only intent is to correct the myths regarding the Civil War. I can accept a share of the blame, the South was as much a part of the US as anyone, and held pretty significant influence in politics of the day. But the South didn't rule for the Supreme Court, the South didn't proclaim that slaves were personal private property, and subject to laws regarding those rights. Those things were done by the UNITED STATES, not the CSA.
And isn't it obvious how you are willing to accept responsibility for the US government's role in condoning, advocating, and sometimes even promoting the institution of slavery before the Civil War?
"White Supremacy" had nothing to do with this. in 1865, 97% of white Americans held a white supremacist view, including Abe Lincoln. That's the problem with this whole debate, you continue to try and tie 1860s America with 1960s America and Civil Rights, connecting them both to the South, and blaming the American problem of racism solely on the South. When in reality, most of our racial problems are happening in LA, NY, Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois, Detroit, Boston... everywhere but down South!
I don't have an evil past, and neither do my ancestors. I am 1/16th African-American and 1/8 Cherokee, the rest is European peasant mutt. The point I try to get people to understand, regarding Civil War Memorials, etc. is... These boys were not fighting "for" slavery, they were fighting to defend their homes, property, and way of life, and that was it. They didn't have a choice, they were doing what they felt was the only thing they could do, fight. They weren't ever asked if they condoned slavery, they were not the ones who started a war, they merely had to go fight it. War is hell, and to hear the horror stories of amputations and such during the Civil War, is almost enough to turn your stomach, I couldn't imagine being there, smelling it, witnessing the horrors first hand.
Whether you agree with the "causes" of the war itself, you should have enough human decency to allow respects to be paid to men who fought and died in battle. Even after nuking Japan and occupying their nation for years, we allowed them to erect memorials to their fallen WWII soldiers.
zappasguitar
Well-known member
Should we build a monument to the Brittish Troops who fought in the Revolutionary war? Maybe lay a wreith at the memorial every Memorial Day?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Actually, the Declaration of Independence establishes the argument that you are compelled to take up arms to defend your constitutional rights, even against the central government itself. This was largely the reason for the 2nd Amendment, to encourage well-regulated militias for just such a purpose, should it arise.
As previously stated, there were two perspectives, and the victors perspective is often the one which prevails. Confederate soldiers were just young boys who lived in states which joined the CSA, they didn't have a choice in the matter, did they?
From the perspective of the South, the US Government was trying to do something against their constitutional rights and the law of the land, according to the Supreme Court. They did have a legitimate argument in principle, and they went to war over it.
A "traitor" is a person who betrays his country. Southerners were standing up for their country and their rights. They weren't betraying the US, the US had betrayed them! The US established the laws and the rules, condoned the institution of slavery, and southern citizens who grew cotton, took advantage of the law and rules as set forth by the US. Then it appeared the US would arbitrarily change the rules and laws, and confiscate personal property without compensation, completely in violation of the Constitutional rights of those who owned the property. Taking up arms to defend your Constitutional rights, is not treasonous. In fact, the Constitution advocates it.
Cancel 2018. 3
<-- sched 2, MJ sched 1
lmao...so jarod now believes that burning a flag indicates you are a traitor to your nation
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Well, if Britain had been made a part of the US following the Revolution, then perhaps we would allow British people to pay tribute to their fallen ancestors. We might respect the fact that some of our American citizens have ancestors who died as soldiers in battle, fighting for what they believed in, whether we agreed with it or not, or whether we even fully understand it. We might just have enough reverence for the dead soldiers, that we allow their ancestors to honor them one day a year, without distorting perspectives and lying about history.
Let me ask you a hypothetical... What if we had lost the Revolution, and were a part of the UK now. Do you think there would be no monuments to fallen soldiers of the American Revolution? Could we not be allowed to honor Washington or Jefferson? Would we be calling Ben Franklin a traitor?
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
How about I just let Billie Holiday respond to your ridiculous post ...
Strange Fruit
Southern trees bear strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.
Pastoral scene of the gallant south,
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh,
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.
Here is fruit for the crows to pluck,
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,
Here is a strange and bitter crop.
To put it mildly, I don't give a fuck about your family. Seriously I do not.
As I said to you earlier, you should try selling this snake oil to someone else because in case you haven't noticed, I'm black.
It doesn't matter how vehemently you deny the obvious truth, you cannot change it. You cannot rewrite history and every known civilization on the planet knows the ungodly dispicable truth of the American south.
It's just business?
Exactly what motherfucking business would that be? Were southerners just merely trying to corner the market on burned negros or was there a run on castrated negro scrotums?
What motherfucking business lead to this happening to a 14 year-old boy?
I spoke to his mother, Mamie Till, about 3 weeks before her death. But you wouldn't be interested in her opinion of the south or of the barbarians who did this to her son.
I'm sure you could convince her that it wasn't personal, just business.
All of this took place AFTER slavery ended. It takes no genius to imagine what blacks endured in the south DURING slavery.
You should go sell this bullshit to someone who cares.
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blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Additionally, Obama is black .. at least on the surface. Would you expect a jewish president to lay a wreath at the tomb of nazis?
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
True dat, or an Irishman to lay one at the tomb of Cromwell, William III, or Henry VIII.
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
Kind of ironic, for a people that were so vehemently opposed to business and industry, saw banking and capitalism as evil, and were generally backwards when it came to economics.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
BAC, you can quote Billie Holiday and pretend I am something I'm not, you can get angry and upset and blame slavery on the South until the day you die, and guess what... it won't change the fact that America condoned slavery for a century before the Civil War. It won't take away the fact that we had slavery here, or that people were lynched. I wasn't here then, everyone who participated in lynchings and advocated to keep slavery is dead, and they have been dead a long time. Being angry and vitriolic at me because of something dead men did over 100 years ago, is not very productive or useful.
Walter E. Williams (I love him) is a black economics professor at George Mason, made an interesting point about the history of slavery. He argues, black people of today should be grateful for slavery! After all, if it weren't for the institution of slavery, you would all likely be running around Africa in a grass skirt, trying to trap your next meal. It is because of slavery, your ancestors, as difficult as their circumstances were, came to America and that you were born in America. Yes, they were treated severely, so were Irish peasants and Jews... lots of people have had an oppressive past. But you're not doing too badly, are you? I mean, isn't living in America better than running around the jungle half naked?
Walter E. Williams (I love him) is a black economics professor at George Mason, made an interesting point about the history of slavery. He argues, black people of today should be grateful for slavery! After all, if it weren't for the institution of slavery, you would all likely be running around Africa in a grass skirt, trying to trap your next meal. It is because of slavery, your ancestors, as difficult as their circumstances were, came to America and that you were born in America. Yes, they were treated severely, so were Irish peasants and Jews... lots of people have had an oppressive past. But you're not doing too badly, are you? I mean, isn't living in America better than running around the jungle half naked?
maineman
Banned
Irish peasants and Jews were never considered property.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Actually, some of the German peasants of which I came from, were considered less than property, in fact, they were being slaughtered so they wouldn't have to be fed. Jews most certainly were enslaved, go read your Bible! Many different races and ethnic groups have been oppressed, enslaved, persecuted through the years, it doesn't give them carte blanc to castigate others who didn't have anything to do with their plight.