Obama vs. Reagan recoveries

Superfreak said:
LOL... so because no one was talking about the homeless, the problem didn't exist? Ok.



LOL... so now we are to the 'well in general his policies did such and so, but I can't provide examples'

As for the deficits... again... who controls the purse strings? The President or Congress?
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Ah - I see we've offended your sensibilities about your messiah.

Look at any official statistics tracking the homeless. The homeless problem blew up in the '80's. It didn't exist in a vacuum - this was a direct result of your messiah's tax policies regarding the rich & poor, and his cuts to housing assistance (those are specific policies, btw - nothing general there).

As for "Congress controls the purse strings", that's a laughable cop-out. Your messiah cut taxes and massively increased the budget in several key areas. "Peace through strength," remember?

Ultimately, your messiah was a fiscal disaster. What little recovery he mustered didn't really last that long, and we're still dealing w/ some of the problems he created.
 
Thing1 said:
Ah - I see we've offended your sensibilities about your messiah.
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LOL... no poor little thing... I simply asked you to justify your position. Which you couldn't. Don't cry now that you have been called out.

Look at any official statistics tracking the homeless. The homeless problem blew up in the '80's. It didn't exist in a vacuum - this was a direct result of your messiah's tax policies regarding the rich & poor, and his cuts to housing assistance (those are specific policies, btw - nothing general there).
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LOL... poor little thing... post your data... because the homeless problem has existed for over 100 years. Tracking the problem certainly improved in the latter half of the past century, but the problem has been here for much longer than you seem to think. But I will wait to see your data.

Saying 'tax policies' added to the homeless problem IS general you dolt. Show us which tax policies. Be specific.

Then show us the cuts to housing aide. What bill did that? (yes, I know it happened, but I want you to show us who in Congress voted for it)

As for "Congress controls the purse strings", that's a laughable cop-out. Your messiah cut taxes and massively increased the budget in several key areas. "Peace through strength," remember?

Ultimately, your messiah was a fiscal disaster. What little recovery he mustered didn't really last that long, and we're still dealing w/ some of the problems he created.
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Aw poor little thing... The recovery that began under Reagan lasted until 2000. 18 years. Pretending it was a 'little recovery' shows just how dishonest you are on the topic.
 
One problem that Americans weren't facing when Obama took office that they faced when Reagan took office was the double-digit stagflation which was crushing the middle class.
 
Bonestorm said:
Yeah, I don't get $1.6 for either of them. Even using your preferred (and dumbass) metric, Clinton was better even if you do not account for inflation.
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I am using actual data from http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

I know it is hard for you to do simple math. But do try.

I will leave the above comment in, since I was the one that made the mistake. $1.85 for Reagan, $1.2 for Clinton... Yeah... I will shut up about simple math now...

The structural deficit problem.
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ROFLMAO... no dearest Dung, he did not solve the problem. Even with an economic boom created by the tech/internet/telecom/biotech sectors, Clinton still ran actual deficits every single fiscal year in office. Not once did the national debt decline under Clinton. He did do the best job (along with Congress) of any President since Ike during his second term, but he still ran up the nations debt, like every President before him since Ike.
 
depends on which year you start... they are both at $1.6 if you use the year they were elected, but it is the following year that is typically used as the start point. I just used the wrong data set.
 
Superfreak said:
LOL... no poor little thing... I simply asked you to justify your position. Which you couldn't. Don't cry now that you have been called out.

LOL... poor little thing... post your data... because the homeless problem has existed for over 100 years. Tracking the problem certainly improved in the latter half of the past century, but the problem has been here for much longer than you seem to think. But I will wait to see your data.

Saying 'tax policies' added to the homeless problem IS general you dolt. Show us which tax policies. Be specific.

Then show us the cuts to housing aide. What bill did that? (yes, I know it happened, but I want you to show us who in Congress voted for it)

As for "Congress controls the purse strings", that's a laughable cop-out. Your messiah cut taxes and massively increased the budget in several key areas. "Peace through strength," remember?

Aw poor little thing... The recovery that began under Reagan lasted until 2000. 18 years. Pretending it was a 'little recovery' shows just how dishonest you are on the topic.
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Are you suggesting that Tip O'Neil was the one who introduced cuts to federal housing assistance?

It's so much more than that. You're looking for "one bill." Over the course of his term in office, Reagan succeeded in cutting federal assistance to local governments and urban areas by 60%. That's 60%. Reagan didn't get a lot of votes from the cities, so he didn't care about the people there. His cuts to mental hospitals were Draconian (which is why so many of the homeless that we saw in the '80's were...guess what?....mentally ill). Check the census yourself; the counts for homeless went from in the 10's of thousands in the '70's to over 1.2 million in the '80's. Reagan started the massive deregulation in the savings & loan industry...guess what that led to?

During the Reagan years, wages for average workers declined, as did home ownership rates. The richest got richer, but everyone else lost ground. Reagan slashed funding for public service jobs and job training. In his 1st year in office, he halved the budget for public housing. The poor got shafted during the Reagan years.

And you want to show me which Dems voted for his bills? Tip O'Neil bent over backwards to find compromise with Reagan, and to honor the mandate he was given by the American people. It's actually the last time we've seen that out of an opposition leader in Congress - Democrat or Republican. And you want to use the spirit of that to try to absolve your messiah of accountability, and continue your campaign of apologism for a guy who basically ignored the poor?
 
Superfreak said:
depends on which year you start... they are both at $1.6 if you use the year they were elected, but it is the following year that is typically used as the start point. I just used the wrong data set.
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It was better when you just acknowledged that you were wrong and that I was right.
 
Stock market return

F. D. Roosevelt 1ST TERM
1933-36
+32.8%
Eisenhower 1ST TERM
1953-56
+21.6
Clinton 2ND TERM
1997-00
+19.2
Coolidge
1925-28
+18.2
Obama
2009-12
+16.4
Wilson 1ST TERM
1913-16
+12.4
Reagan 2ND TERM
1985-88
+12.0
Truman
1949-52
+11.4
Harding-Coolidge
1921-24
+10.8
Clinton 1ST TERM
1993-96
+10.5
Kennedy-Johnson
1961-64
+7.8
G.H.W. Bush
1989-92
+7.2
Eisenhower 2ND TERM
1957-60
+4.7
Reagan 1ST TERM
1981-84
+0.7
G.W. Bush 2ND TERM
2005-08
+0.3
F. D. Roosevelt 3RD TERM
1941-44
–1.8
Johnson
1965-68
–2.1
Nixon
1969-72
–2.9
Roosevelt-Truman
1945-48
–6.4
G.W. Bush 1ST TERM
2001-04
–7.8
Carter
1977-80
–9.4
F. D. Roosevelt 2ND TERM
1937-40
–11.2
Wilson 2ND TERM
1917-20
–12.2
Nixon-Ford
 
Thing1 said:
Are you suggesting that Tip O'Neil was the one who introduced cuts to federal housing assistance?
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No, I did not suggest that. I asked you to post the bill with the cuts to housing. I asked you to provide the data on the homeless that you say is easy to find.

It's so much more than that. You're looking for "one bill." Over the course of his term in office, Reagan succeeded in cutting federal assistance to local governments and urban areas by 60%. That's 60%. Reagan didn't get a lot of votes from the cities, so he didn't care about the people there. His cuts to mental hospitals were Draconian (which is why so many of the homeless that we saw in the '80's were...guess what?....mentally ill). Check the census yourself; the counts for homeless went from in the 10's of thousands in the '70's to over 1.2 million in the '80's. Reagan started the massive deregulation in the savings & loan industry...guess what that led to?
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LMAO... so no... you are going to continue to pretend this was all Reagans idea? Care to back it up? Provide the bills where the cuts were made.

LOL... you keep saying the data is easy to find. Link us up.

We will for now ignore the high inflation, low employment of the Carter era... I am sure that had little effect on homelessness.

I suppose you will also ignore the deinstitutionalisation of patients in the 1960's?

During the Reagan years, wages for average workers declined, as did home ownership rates. The richest got richer, but everyone else lost ground. Reagan slashed funding for public service jobs and job training. In his 1st year in office, he halved the budget for public housing. The poor got shafted during the Reagan years.
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So much nonsense. Just non stop rhetoric. Back up your crap with data.

And you want to show me which Dems voted for his bills? Tip O'Neil bent over backwards to find compromise with Reagan, and to honor the mandate he was given by the American people. It's actually the last time we've seen that out of an opposition leader in Congress - Democrat or Republican. And you want to use the spirit of that to try to absolve your messiah of accountability, and continue your campaign of apologism for a guy who basically ignored the poor?
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LOL... yes, both O'Neil and Reagan compromised with each other. That is well known. Funny how you keep avoiding the FACT that the bills went through Congress. I know your Messiah doesn't bother with the legislative branch, but every President before him has. So yes, Congress controls the purse strings... congress creates the bills. You have yet to show me how these cuts were Reagan's idea alone. You have yet to back up any of your nonsense with data... data you continue to say is easy to find.
 
XLVIII DOMINATORS said:
Economic differences to be certain, but I submit Reagan's policies, had Obama chose to follow his lead, would have been more successful.

Obama is a centrist liberal, but IMO he also brought to the presidency a cultural socialism that choked any hope for a solid recovery. We can't get a jobs friendly president into office too soon to head off further damage from Obamas weak approach and bad social policies.
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I submit that the jobs are gone because the factories are closed and have been moved to China.
I submit that this is greatly the fault of Reagan who decided to change our economy from manufacturing to service, and there are simply way too many people to be employed in service.
Furthermore, service doesn't create wealth, manufacturing does.
I finally submit that you are an imbecile for not knowing these things.
 
Thing1 said:
How about slashing housing assistance? Do you think it's a coincidence that we didn't really hear about a "homeless problem" before the '80's?

Reagan's policies in general were very wealthy individual/corporate friendly. If you want to go back to both when there started to be a dramatic disparity between the haves & have nots, as well as when our deficits started exploding, they're all about Reagan and his fiscal management.
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How about closing mental institutions and creating a huge class of mentally ill homeless?
 
Superfreak said:
LOL... so because no one was talking about the homeless, the problem didn't exist? Ok.



LOL... so now we are to the 'well in general his policies did such and so, but I can't provide examples'

As for the deficits... again... who controls the purse strings? The President or Congress?
Click to expand...

How old are you? Seriously?

Regan in one act created a giant class of mentally ill homeless and you think it is funny?
 
Superfreak said:
No, I did not suggest that. I asked you to post the bill with the cuts to housing. I asked you to provide the data on the homeless that you say is easy to find.



LMAO... so no... you are going to continue to pretend this was all Reagans idea? Care to back it up? Provide the bills where the cuts were made.

LOL... you keep saying the data is easy to find. Link us up.

We will for now ignore the high inflation, low employment of the Carter era... I am sure that had little effect on homelessness.

I suppose you will also ignore the deinstitutionalisation of patients in the 1960's?



So much nonsense. Just non stop rhetoric. Back up your crap with data.



LOL... yes, both O'Neil and Reagan compromised with each other. That is well known. Funny how you keep avoiding the FACT that the bills went through Congress. I know your Messiah doesn't bother with the legislative branch, but every President before him has. So yes, Congress controls the purse strings... congress creates the bills. You have yet to show me how these cuts were Reagan's idea alone. You have yet to back up any of your nonsense with data... data you continue to say is easy to find.
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You know, you have always been a shill, but still fun to argue with. Now you are just showing yourself to be a horribly misinformed talking point parrot.

I am very disappointed.
 
Rune said:
You know, you have always been a shill, but still fun to argue with. Now you are just showing yourself to be a horribly misinformed talking point parrot.

I am very disappointed.
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You are not arguing, you are simply tossing out your petty little attacks.

Tell us Dune... Who controlled the House during Reagan's two terms? The Dems had a 50 seat majority in the House from 1981-83; a 103 seat majority from 83-85; a 71 seat majority from 85-87; an 81 seat majority from 87-89. So tell us... how is it that Reagan did all this to the homeless when it is the DEMS that controlled the House with massive majorities?
 
Superfreak said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
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Yes, the Kennedy administration laid the groundwork for deinstitutionalization via policy funding. Reagan was governor during these policy and societal shifts. In fact it was the ACLU who were invested in "freeing the inmates of mental institutions".

Lazy thinkers always look for an easy scapegoat. The truth is deinstitutionalization was good, and bad. Which is always the case in an imperfect world.
 
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