obama h/c bill dead?

C

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Senator Jim Webb puts out a statement that puts the notion of a quick Senate vote out of reach and pretty much makes a certification fight moot:

In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process. It is vital that we restore the respect of the American people in our system of government and in our leaders. To that end, I believe it would only be fair and prudent that we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0110/On_to_Plan_C.html

good, obama knows this bill sucks, but his ego won't let him stop until he gets a bill, even if the bill is shit

let's start over, and get the right bill passed
 
Yep.

I don't think anyone is starting over on anything, either. Healthcare is going to quietly languish in committee until about a decade past the Mayan end date, when some fool who feels like losing an election will take it up again...
 
Onceler said:
Yep.

I don't think anyone is starting over on anything, either. Healthcare is going to quietly languish in committee until about a decade past the Mayan end date, when some fool who feels like losing an election will take it up again...
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you're so cynical....and whats with the mayan obsession?

h/c has never been this close. it needs to be fixed. people on both sides are saying this. it can and should be started over onceler. don't give up just because obama's pick didn't win tonight. obama is a loser on the h/c bill. he doesn't care, anything is better than nothing with him.
 
Eh, honestly, I hope I'm wrong. But watch what happens. It's the new 3rd rail, imo; politically, people will feel safer taking up SS reform...
 
Onceler said:
Yep.

I don't think anyone is starting over on anything, either. Healthcare is going to quietly languish in committee until about a decade past the Mayan end date, when some fool who feels like losing an election will take it up again...
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That's pretty short-sighted analysis. What is the downside for anyone that already voted for the bill to vote for it again? They're already going to get hammered for it anyway so they might as well pass it and sell the shit out of it.
 
Onceler said:
Eh, honestly, I hope I'm wrong. But watch what happens. It's the new 3rd rail, imo; politically, people will feel safer taking up SS reform...
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and you might very well be right. i don't have high hopes, but i didn't have high hopes if coakely won. when you have politicians saying: this bill is better than nothing.......well....imo, run away as far as you can from that bill

ss reform, not a bad idea. how about medicare....fix that, and then possibly in the next h/c bill, expand medicare. it is after all the idea of the public option. fixed that, and then watch how a h/c bill will pass....hard to convince people when you're out there like obama claiming that the h/c bill won't cost that much because you're going to save approx. a half a billion in unnecessary costs from medicare.
 
NigelTufnel said:
That's pretty short-sighted analysis. What is the downside for anyone that already voted for the bill to vote for it again? They're already going to get hammered for it anyway so they might as well pass it and sell the shit out of it.
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What's the downside? It's about the same as running an ad that just says "Hey, American people - I'm not into listening to you right now..."

I was kind of kidding about SS reform (though, it does need to be reformed at some point)...
 
Onceler said:
What's the downside? It's about the same as running an ad that just says "Hey, American people - I'm not into listening to you right now..."

I was kind of kidding about SS reform (though, it does need to be reformed at some point)...
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That'll happen whether they vote for it again or not.
 
Yurt said:
Senator Jim Webb puts out a statement that puts the notion of a quick Senate vote out of reach and pretty much makes a certification fight moot:

In many ways the campaign in Massachusetts became a referendum not only on health care reform but also on the openness and integrity of our government process. It is vital that we restore the respect of the American people in our system of government and in our leaders. To that end, I believe it would only be fair and prudent that we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0110/On_to_Plan_C.html

good, obama knows this bill sucks, but his ego won't let him stop until he gets a bill, even if the bill is shit

let's start over, and get the right bill passed
Click to expand...

LOL, what bill that Brown or any Republican would vote for would be the 'right' bill?
 
We can pass some populist measures like the public option through reconciliation that will boost our poll numbers. No Republicans are going to vote for it. Scott Brown's will have made any fundamental reform more, not less, difficult. It is gobsmacking that you could think otherwise.
 
NigelTufnel said:
That'll happen whether they vote for it again or not.
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That depends entirely on how they present it. Saying "I heard you and won't do that again." goes a long way. I've seen it work. Seriously, if they really want to drive people to the ballot box against them it can only get worse for everybody in your party if they try to ram that square into this round hole.
 
Damocles said:
That depends entirely on how they present it. Saying "I heard you and won't do that again." goes a long way. I've seen it work. Seriously, if they really want to drive people to the ballot box against them it can only get worse for everybody in your party if they try to ram that square into this round hole.
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If we don't pass UHC there's no point in even having the Democrats win.
 
Atheistmark said:
LOL, what bill that Brown or any Republican would vote for would be the 'right' bill?
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oh ye of little faith agnostist atheist whatever

i didn't like the early bill, but ib1 did some great research and convinced me. stop being a pussy, if you want the bill passed, debate people like me like ib1 did.
 
Damocles said:
You assume that they got elected because of HC Malformation proposals. They got elected because people didn't like Bush. Most of them ran on that.
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That's where you take a mis-step. McCain wasn't Bush either.

Obama (and Hillary, when the primaries were going on) ran loud & clear on not just healthcare reform, but universal healthcare. Before the TEA party version of fear factor started, most polls showed pretty widespread support for it, as well. The election was as much a referendum on that as anything.

People aren't happy about healthcare, Damo. They're not happy about the costs, they're not happy about the companies they work for constantly raising premiums or dropping coverage altogether, and they are most certainly not happy about being denied coverage when they have insurance, or having to fight tooth & nail for coverage they have paid for.
 
Atheistmark said:
And what did he do to convince you?
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i'm not going to reiterate all our debates, but since you asked, i will try and sum it up:

the death panels did not exist, i independently looked that up. while it is argueable that rationing might turn into that, no more so that private insurance. IMO.

public option, already exists in form with medicare....that was his biggest point.

i honestly don't remember every debate, but he debated with cites, figures and proof. he changed my mind and i was dead set against it. that is why i come to these boards (USMB, DP), to debate.....i like the occasional hack stuff and insult fests, but if you can't debate, i have very little interest. debate is what makes the world go round...so to speak. it is the free exchange of ideas.
 
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