I'm asking you to show me how you got to the "Trillions" figure for the stimulus. There was the stimulus bill, $800 billion. You mention the Cash for Clunkers program (I assume that's what you meant), which is another $3 billion. Where's the other $1.197 Trillion that gets us to the least amount possible for "Trillions" to be accurate?
Obama Budget Speech Lays an Egg!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
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I'm asking you to show me how you got to the "Trillions" figure for the stimulus. There was the stimulus bill, $800 billion. You mention the Cash for Clunkers program (I assume that's what you meant), which is another $3 billion. Where's the other $1.197 Trillion that gets us to the least amount possible for "Trillions" to be accurate?
Yup, and I posted on that as well. It is very real, we've spent trillions on this, all the overspending is excused by the economy, it is a continuous mantra. I just posted on the real cost of just one bill, then you add the other extra spending thrown at the problem that wasn't included in the bill and it becomes a behemoth.
It is flat immoral to steal the treasure of the future so that you can feel that this mediocre almost growth is "success"...
We absolutely did not get our money's worth from this. It is fail, and the only option we get from your side is to somehow throw more money at it while reducing the deficit. It's flat imaginary. Anybody who trusts the man who outspent Bush by four times to "fix" the deficit spending is just living in fantasy, closing their eyes, and pretending we aren't stealing from our children to get this crappy mediocre almost-growth.
As I said, and I'll repeat. If this is "success" then I truly fear what you think is failure.
But as we all know, the programs have not been been permanently extended. So, that analysis is horse shit. And, I might add, you said that we have already spent "Trillions," not that if the 20 most popular programs were permanently extended (which, again, they haven't been) we will spend Trillions over the next ten years.
If you are referring to post #60, you should re-read it and compare it to what you said.
We haven't spent "Trillions" on stimulus.
Bull, we don't "all know" that, and any intelligent being can simply check the track record and make a reasonable prediction that they will be extended. Do you think the Ds will support spending less on Head Start rather than more? How about COBRA? The Earned Income Tax (Welfare check) Credit?
You have to absolutely have motive to ignore this, it's that criminally stupid.
Your argument is that no dollar spent outside that bill can possibly be considered stimulus, and mine is that you are deliberately ignoring the money we've spent outside that bill.
I believe that anybody who isn't wholly enveloped in their partisanship will understand. I don't expect it from you. Onceler will get it though.
I'm not arguing anything. I'm asking you to show me the Trillions. So far, you've some up with about $803 billion, which is a Trillion and change short of Trillions.
Edit: And I'm being kind with the $800 billion number. About 1/3 of it was tax cuts. I know you don't think cutting taxes is spending anything, so I'm giving it to you out of kindness.
And I've explained repeatedly where I came up with those numbers. Again, you attempt to pretend that the only spending that could be considered "stimulus" associate with one bill, and it is my contention that almost all the overspending has used the excuse that we have to do it to "fix" Bush's mistake.
We have outspent Bush by a longshot, spent Trillions, and received no tangible real result.
And again, I've pointed to other spending that flat was done because of the economy that you ignore.
Can you point to any post in particular that could plausibly support the Trillions number. I must have missed it. Contrary to popular perception, I am not infallible.
Does anyone remember when the GOP talking point about the stimulus was that, not only would it not turn the economy around, but it would send us basically into the Dark Ages, and we'd have a decade-long recession/depression like Japan?
Those were the days. Now, it's just "you promised it would restore every single job by now, and it hasn't"....
Those were the days. Now, it's just "you promised it would restore every single job by now, and it hasn't"....
We spent how much bailing out the banks? Then when they paid us back that money was spent (not returned, it is not figured in the budget) without record.
This is over a trillion... We extend out the real cost of the "stimulus" package and we find that trillions are spent...
We can cover it over and over again, but the reality is every dime they overspend this Administration tries to blame on the economy. It is also "stimulus".
We've gone from 10 Trillion in debt to 14 Trillion in two years (waaaay more than Bush). All in the name of jump starting this economy. We're now looking at increasing the debt ceiling so that we can continue on this fiscal insanity, and all your focus is on one bill that isn't even close to the extent we have spent to jump start this economy.
We have put ourselves into Trillions in debt all in the name of jumpstarting this economy. But heck, we can ignore everything and pretend that I am "exaggerating"... I'm not. We've spent Trillions of dollars we didn't have to "restore" the economy, and it hasn't worked.
This is over a trillion... We extend out the real cost of the "stimulus" package and we find that trillions are spent...
We can cover it over and over again, but the reality is every dime they overspend this Administration tries to blame on the economy. It is also "stimulus".
We've gone from 10 Trillion in debt to 14 Trillion in two years (waaaay more than Bush). All in the name of jump starting this economy. We're now looking at increasing the debt ceiling so that we can continue on this fiscal insanity, and all your focus is on one bill that isn't even close to the extent we have spent to jump start this economy.
We have put ourselves into Trillions in debt all in the name of jumpstarting this economy. But heck, we can ignore everything and pretend that I am "exaggerating"... I'm not. We've spent Trillions of dollars we didn't have to "restore" the economy, and it hasn't worked.
Actually, that is exactly what is happening. We're in a holding pattern just like Japan. I know you think that is "success" but it isn't.
Really? Last I checked, consumer confidence was up, the market was up, we had a positive jobs report, the unemployment rate went down, employers reported plans for even more hires in the next quarter, and the economy was growing.
I know in your world, this is exactly the same as where we were in early 2008, with massive job losses, a market spiraling downward, employers planning even more massive layoffs instead of hires, and confidence at a scary low....but most of us see a difference.
Right, tell that to the 300,000 or more foreclosures that will happen this year and those who own properties in California that are now worth only half what they were before and still falling.
Tell that to the people who dropped out of the count of "unemployed" because they simply gave up on jobs, not because they got one.
Tell that to the kids entering the workforce who can't get jobs. The numbers of jobs don't even support just those new entries let alone rebuild any of the jobs lost previous.
You have to absolutely ignore reality to believe that this is a great economy that everybody feels good about. And you have to pretend that the only spending we can call "stimulus" was that associated with one bill, while ignoring any other spending that we've done "because of the economy"...
This economy sucks, it continues to suck, and the growth is meagre at best, just like Japans was for decades.
Typical emotionalism when you're getting crushed. I told you not to pull a tinfoil and try to imply that I'm claiming the economy is amazing; it's not.
It's turning around, which is GOOD. That doesn't mean it is GOOD yet. Get it? And anyone who is looking for a job has a LOT more hope & reason for optimism now than they did in '08. You can't dispute that.
Rubbish, I list facts and your only answer is "you are emotional"...
I'm not, those are all facts.
It isn't "good" even though we've thrown the treasure of our children at it. That is what has failed.
The total cost of TARP (enacted under Bush mind you) was $50 billion. You're at $853 billion. Just $1.147 Trillion more to go!