NY Post publishes Obama's socialist plans, then mistakes him for Robin Hood???

Epicurus said:
I'm still struggling with it.

I think I will vote for him but I went from pretty solidly in Obama's camp last to swing voter today.
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I have narrowed down my decision....

The write in will be either Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck. Bugs is currently the frontrunner due to his natural tendency to be a smart ass.

Neither McCain nor Obama will get my vote.
 
Dungheap said:
Hmmm . . . interesting theory. I suppose Bush's ridiculous spending brought about the same thing? Reagan's?

What is most striking is that any independent analysis shows that McCain's spending plans will bring about more deficit spending than Obama's by a factor or 2 or three. So I guess McCain would have to really increase taxes on the middle class.
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Show your "independent analysis".
It costs around $800 billion per year to fund Medicare and Medicaid right?
That's for approx. 100 million Americans. Universal healthcare which would cover the other 200 million Americans (by those above factual numbers) would cost $1.6 trillion. Now of course old people use more healthcare so I can give the Dems some slack and say it won't be that high, probably more like $1.2 trillion but certainly over a trillion.

And let's not forget that the Dem majority senate and house after this election will be only too glad to pass Obama's spending plans, do you think they would pass McCain's?
 
Superfreak said:
I have narrowed down my decision....

The write in will be either Bugs Bunny or Daffy Duck. Bugs is currently the frontrunner due to his natural tendency to be a smart ass.

Neither McCain nor Obama will get my vote.
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Super,
I have the same frustration but let's not forget that we will for 100% see a Dem majority senate and a Dem majority house after this election, possibly even a filibuster proof senate.
McCain is the only (shitty) hope of being able to curtail the left's bankrupting spending plans.
I implore you to change your mind, things haven't been great for us true Conservatives but they can always get worse.
 
Watermark said:
We also had a humongous boom in the 50's when their taxes were raised to 90%.

Sure, the amount of money coming out of that bracket increased from 1980-1990. But it increased a hell of a lot loss than from 1970-1980. The fact is that they didn't barely keep up with inflation.
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This isn't the 50's, you have a global economy, you are already seeing business leave from high taxes, high regulations and the world's worst overburdening lawsuit system. Obama and Dems will only make all 3 of those worse.

Patriotic rich Americans didn't mind big taxes in the 50's to go with national pride in the thinking of that time, today they will and already do move offshore to tax havens in the Caribean.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Super,
I have the same frustration but let's not forget that we will for 100% see a Dem majority senate and a Dem majority house after this election, possibly even a filibuster proof senate.
McCain is the only (shitty) hope of being able to curtail the left's bankrupting spending plans.
I implore you to change your mind, things haven't been great for us true Conservatives but they can always get worse.
Click to expand...

There isn't much to base that on. Bush & a GOP majority broke the bank.

The Dems will have some pretty major fiscal restraints in the next few years because of the recession & bailout. I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of the "reinventing gov't" project undertaken by Clinton/Gore and abandoned by Bush.
 
KingCondanomation said:
Show your "independent analysis".
It costs around $800 billion per year to fund Medicare and Medicaid right?
That's for approx. 100 million Americans. Universal healthcare which would cover the other 200 million Americans (by those above factual numbers) would cost $1.6 trillion. Now of course old people use more healthcare so I can give the Dems some slack and say it won't be that high, probably more like $1.2 trillion but certainly over a trillion.

And let's not forget that the Dem majority senate and house after this election will be only too glad to pass Obama's spending plans, do you think they would pass McCain's?
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1) Obama isn't proposing universal healthcare.

2) Independent Analysis:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411750_updated_candidates_summary.pdf

Key graph:

Including interest costs, Obama’s tax plan would boost the debt by $3.5 trillion by 2018. McCain’s plan would increase the debt by $5 trillion on top of the $2.3 trillion increase that the Congressional Budget Office forecasts for the next decade (see Summary Deficit Table).
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Dungheap said:
1) Obama isn't proposing universal healthcare.

2) Independent Analysis:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411750_updated_candidates_summary.pdf

Key graph:
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Independent Analysis?
The Tax Policy Center is a joint venture of the Brookings institute which even the New York Times labelled them as liberal leaning. Time Magazine even once labelled them the "nation's pre-eminent liberal think tank"


The comparison is near worthless because it pretends that Obama is not doing universal healthcare when not only is he doing it but it was his first promise:
"Obama's first promise as a presidential candidate was that he would sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of his firm term in the White House. "
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/05/29/politics/p000933D96.DTL&type=health

Finally and once again, as you omitted addressing this critical point, we will have a Dem run house and senate who will be only too eager to pass his spending plans, they will not adopt McCain's, they hate the guy which means better fiscal times are ahead if he can get in office. Likewise he will veto some of their spending plans.
 
Onceler said:
There isn't much to base that on. Bush & a GOP majority broke the bank.
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McCain (despite the McSame calls) is not Bush, he has consistently fought against pork and is looking to reform healthcare and introduce more competition rather than start a giant new $1.2 trillion universal healthcare social welfare plan.

Onceler said:
The Dems will have some pretty major fiscal restraints in the next few years because of the recession & bailout. I wouldn't be surprised to see a resurgence of the "reinventing gov't" project undertaken by Clinton/Gore and abandoned by Bush.
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Clinton had the guts to cut the military, Obama promises a 100,000 troop increase from his own site:
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/defense/

I do hope you're right but I can only judge Obama on his record and his record is voting for tax increases and spending increases that look the same as any other Liberal in the senate.
 
Posterchild for Republican Apologists:

KingCondanomation said:
Super,
I have the same frustration but let's not forget that we will for 100% see a Dem majority senate and a Dem majority house after this election, possibly even a filibuster proof senate.
McCain is the only hope of being able to curtail the left's bankrupting spending plans.
I implore you to change your mind, things haven't been great for us true Conservatives but they can always get worse.
Click to expand...


:lmao:

mcCain the only hope...... man you just keep them coming don't you
 
KingCondanomation said:
Independent Analysis?
The Tax Policy Center is a joint venture of the Brookings institute which even the New York Times labelled them as liberal leaning. Time Magazine even once labelled them the "nation's pre-eminent liberal think tank"


The comparison is near worthless because it pretends that Obama is not doing universal healthcare when not only is he doing it but it was his first promise:
"Obama's first promise as a presidential candidate was that he would sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of his firm term in the White House. "
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/05/29/politics/p000933D96.DTL&type=health

Finally and once again, as you omitted addressing this critical point, we will have a Dem run house and senate who will be only too eager to pass his spending plans, they will not adopt McCain's, they hate the guy which means better fiscal times are ahead if he can get in office. Likewise he will veto some of their spending plans.
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Ugh, you're a total hack. His plan is not universal healthcare. At all. Which you would understand if you actually read the plan. or the article that you grabbed that stupid quote from. Here is the article with the stuff you pulled from it shrunk down:

Obama's first promise as a presidential candidate was that he would sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of his firm term in the White House. But there is some dispute over whether his plan would provide universal care — it's aimed at lowering costs so all Americans can afford insurance, but does not guarantee everyone would buy it.

"It's not totally clear that it would result in universal coverage," said Ron Pollack, executive director of the advocacy group Families USA. He praised Obama and other leading Democratic candidates for focusing on improving health care.

"What makes it a top national priority now is not simply a sense of sympathy for people who are uninsured but a sense of fear that the coverage that used to be taken for granted can no longer be taken for granted," he said.

Obama aides said they believe that everyone would buy health insurance if it were affordable enough, achieving universal care. If some Americans are still uninsured after a few years into the plan, Obama would reconsider how to get to 100 percent, the advisers said.

That's where he differs with Democratic rival John Edwards, the only other candidate who has laid out a specific plan. Edwards eventually would require every American to get health insurance, much like state requirements that drivers have auto insurance. Obama would only require that children be covered.
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As for the Tax Policy Center. Fine, you don't like it. Do you have a contrary analysis?
 
LadyT said:
Hi I'm the Posterchild for Democrat Apologists:






mcCain the only hope...... man you just keep them coming don't you
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It's McCain or Obama, is Obama going to veto any of the Dem run house and senate's spending plans? He's going to go against his own party?
McCain can only be better.
 
DeMano, the idea that a random veto of any unnamed spending plan is always a good thing & something to strive for is just dumb.

For example, Obama wants to invest $15 billion a year into alt energy, which will ultimately mean hundreds of billions, if not trillions, for the U.S. economy. It's called "return on investment."
 
Dungheap said:
Ugh, you're a total hack. His plan is not universal healthcare. At all. Which you would understand if you actually read the plan. or the article that you grabbed that stupid quote from. Here is the article with the stuff you pulled from it shrunk down:
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I'm not a hack, that was just the first article I found. You want another? Here's an even better one with Obama himself saying he wants universal healthcare.

"Universal healthcare must not be a question of whether, it must be a question of how," Obama said. "We have the ideas, the resources and now we need the will. There is no reason why we can't accomplish that."
http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/story.cms?id=6022

Go and argue with Obama and tell him he doesn't want universal healthcare.

This reminds me of that time when I posted a poll of media people SELF-identifying themselves as Liberal, and the lefties on this site still kept trying to argue against that saying they are not Liberal.

Obama says he wants universal healthcare, I choose to believe him over you.
 
Onceler said:
DeMano, the idea that a random veto of any unnamed spending plan is always a good thing & something to strive for is just dumb.

For example, Obama wants to invest $15 billion a year into alt energy, which will ultimately mean hundreds of billions, if not trillions, for the U.S. economy. It's called "return on investment."
Click to expand...

If it's such a great return on investment, why isn't the private sector doing it more? They are after profit, if it was going to give the returns you state, the money would be there to invest.
 
KingCondanomation said:
I'm not a hack, that was just the first article I found. You want another? Here's an even better one with Obama himself saying he wants universal healthcare.

"Universal healthcare must not be a question of whether, it must be a question of how," Obama said. "We have the ideas, the resources and now we need the will. There is no reason why we can't accomplish that."
http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/story.cms?id=6022

Go and argue with Obama and tell him he doesn't want universal healthcare.

This reminds me of that time when I posted a poll of media people SELF-identifying themselves as Liberal, and the lefties on this site still kept trying to argue against that saying they are not Liberal.

Obama says he wants universal healthcare, I choose to believe him over you.
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OK. You're not a hack. You're just an idiot. If you read Obama's healthcare proposal he is not pushing for universal healthcare. In fact, that he was not pushing for universal healthcare was a big issue in the Democratic primary because Clinton and Edwards were while he was not.

Some quote from almost two years ago about what he would prefer in an idea world is not a policy proposal.
 
You are right on that first point though Lorax, it's not always a good thing, I thought missile defense spending was critical but in the current climate with a now over $10 trillion deficit?
What the Dems really need to do is cut spending, military spending is a natural place for them to start but they are stuck talking about change with "new ideas" (as in new (old) spending ideas). I just don't see Obama cutting spending and certainly not against his own party.
 
KingCondanomation said:
If it's such a great return on investment, why isn't the private sector doing it more? They are after profit, if it was going to give the returns you state, the money would be there to invest.
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So myopic. Often, private investors follow the gov't. If you read anything on this topic, which you obviously don't, you would know that increased gov't funding is going to get us where we want to be decades sooner.

We had this debate on funding for medical research; you bailed on it when I dug up a study showing the absolutely astronomical return on investment for the relatively paltry amount the gov't invests.

You really don't understand the concept of ROI.
 
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