No one but bigots would notice mosque

[Onceler]

"when pinheads like you start trying to blame the war totally on Bush"

Why, Rebel - why in the world would you think Iraq is something for which "blame" needs to be assigned?

My goodness...it seems like you think it might not be such a good thing in retrospect. I guess your whole "the greatest military achievement of our generation!" is a thing of the past.

This is a truly shocking development.

 

[Southern Chicken]

Again, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC!

It has been THROWN IN... to DIVERT... DISTRACT... pull everyone's attention AWAY from THE TOPIC! It has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is being discussed here, and the ONLY reason it is brought up, is because you are FAILING to make your argument on the TOPIC! Got that, Jarhead?

IS MY POST OFF TOPIC OR are you ignoring it???? Revisit #57

 

[Cypress]

Again, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS TOPIC!

It has been THROWN IN... to DIVERT... DISTRACT... pull everyone's attention AWAY from THE TOPIC! It has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is being discussed here, and the ONLY reason it is brought up, is because you are FAILING to make your argument on the TOPIC! Got that, Jarhead?

I only brought it up as a clear and present demonstration of your pattern of willful lying....from the Iraq War/WMD, to "Climate Gate", to the "trophy mosque".


Have you fully retreated, and back tracked away from claiming this community center, is located "on ground zero", and is a "trophy" shrine dedicated to islamic victory on 9/11?

Were those assertions you made over and over, so embarrassing to look at in retrospect, that you've abandoned them?

Or, is the "victory mosque" still your story, and you're sticking with it?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=986

DIXIE are you aware that this same individual has more to his background?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/17/ground-zero-imam-helped-f_n_685071.html

QUOTE
"Imam Feisal has participated at the Aspen Institute in Muslim-Christian-Jewish working groups looking at ways to promote greater religious tolerance," Walter Isaacson, head of The Aspen Institute told the Huffington Post. "He has consistently denounced radical Islam and terrorism, and promoted a moderate and tolerant Islam. Some of this work was done under the auspices of his own group, the Cordoba Initiative. I liked his book, and I participated in some of the meetings in 2004 or so. This is why I find it a shame that his good work is being undermined by this inflamed dispute. He is the type of leader we should be celebrating in America, not undermining."

A longtime Muslim presence in New York City, Feisal Abdul Rauf has been a participant in the geopolitical debate about Islamic-Western relations well before 9/11. In 1997, he founded the American Society for Muslim Advancement to promote a more positive integration of Muslims into American society. His efforts and profile rose dramatically after the attacks when, in need of a calm voice to explain why greater Islam was not a force bent on terrorism, he became a go-to quote for journalists on the beat."

How about the ground zero families who support the center? Are you saying that they are unaware as well???????

QUOTE
September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows applauds President Barack Obama for his statement in support of the building of a mosque near Ground Zero. On that day, members of our organization paid the ultimate price. We lost loved ones in the tragic attacks, attacks perpetrated by criminals. Our losses will never be redeemed; our wounds will never fully heal. On 9/11/2001 while many of us buried our loved ones we also took heart in our nation's principles and our rule of law. Ours is a nation that fights for religious freedom. Many of us who call ourselves Americans do so because we came to escape religious persecution in other lands.

http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/article.php?id=986



OOOOOoooooopsssss

Uhm, I never said that Rauf was Osama Bin Laden! When you have true moderate Muslims coming out to condemn this mosque, which is to be named for a famous Islamic conquest, it's pretty fucking clear this is not something supported by moderate Muslims. You can try to cheerlead for this Imam all you like, his words are on record... He thinks 9/11 was the result of US policy, I heard this come from his own mouth! He thinks Osama Bin Laden was "made in the USA" ...again, I heard him say this with his own mouth! He believes the US should be "Sharia compliant" ...again, words straight from the man's mouth! What he seems to be unable to say, is that Hammas is a terror organization, those words he seems to have trouble saying.

If he is such a promoter of "greater religious tolerance" why isn't this mosque going to be muti-religious? Why can't it also contain a Temple and a Synagogue? You know, I believe if something multi-cultural like that were the plan, you might see enormous SUPPORT for it! Change the name to something that doesn't honor Islamic conquest, and include the other major religions, and there is no more issue here! IF this man were TRULY interested in promoting greater tolerance, that would be the plan!

 

[Southern Chicken]

I only brought it up as a clear and present demonstration of your pattern of willful lying....from the Iraq War/WMD, to "Climate Gate", to the "trophy mosque".


Have you fully retreated, and back tracked away from claiming this community center, is located "on ground zero", and is a "trophy" shrine dedicated to islamic victory on 9/11?

Were those assertions you made over and over, so embarrassing to look at in retrospect, that you've abandoned them?

Or, is the "victory mosque" still your story, and you're sticking with it?

Dont stop asking Dixie these questions Cypress. He is fun. Some other questions for Dixie.

But first An inconvenient truth:

There are at least two other mosques in the neighborhood. The Masjid al Farah, where Rauf served as prayer leader until 2009, sits 12 blocks from Ground Zero. The Masjid
Manhattan, which was founded in 1970, is four blocks from Ground Zero, on Warren Street.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...pnews⊂=AR

The Masjid Manhattan mosque was actually built before the World Trade Center. Question Dixie, Are four blocks away still too close? How about 12 blocks?

What's the right amount of distance away from Ground Zero for a mosque? Middle of the Hudson River? Choose

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I only brought it up as a clear and present demonstration of your pattern of willful lying....

Why don't you just stick to the topic and point out what I've lied about?

 

[Onceler]

"When you have true moderate Muslims coming out to condemn this mosque, which is to be named for a famous Islamic conquest, it's pretty fucking clear this is not something supported by moderate Muslims"

The comments I've seen from what you call "moderate" Muslims seem pretty clear; they understand that there is incredible, irrational animosity directed toward their religion by folks like you, and don't want to do anything to further enflame that, irrational as it may be.

It's not based on agreement with your position, which is coming from a place of hysteria.

 

[Jarod]

You lied that President Obama is cheerleading this Community Center.... or even that he is in favor of it....

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dont stop asking Dixie these questions Cypress. He is fun. Some other questions for Dixie.

But first An inconvenient truth:

There are at least two other mosques in the neighborhood. The Masjid al Farah, where Rauf served as prayer leader until 2009, sits 12 blocks from Ground Zero. The Masjid
Manhattan, which was founded in 1970, is four blocks from Ground Zero, on Warren Street.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...pnews⊂=AR

The Masjid Manhattan mosque was actually built before the World Trade Center. Question Dixie, Are four blocks away still too close? How about 12 blocks?

What's the right amount of distance away from Ground Zero for a mosque? Middle of the Hudson River? Choose

Now you are reverting back to the argument that this is about disallowing the practice of the Islamic faith within proximity of ground zero, and no one has stated that as an opposition to the mosque being planned. I'm sorry, but your little talking point trying to pretend this is about denying Muslims the right to express their religion, has already failed.

This is about allowing a Trophy of Conquest to be built by radical Muslims, in the shadow of ground zero, where they killed 3,000 Americans. If anything, your point only illustrates this facility is certainly not "needed" to enable the worshiping by Muslims, they have plenty of other places to practice their religion, as you have pointed out, this one is not needed.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

"When you have true moderate Muslims coming out to condemn this mosque, which is to be named for a famous Islamic conquest, it's pretty fucking clear this is not something supported by moderate Muslims"

The comments I've seen from what you call "moderate" Muslims seem pretty clear; they understand that there is incredible, irrational animosity directed toward their religion by folks like you, and don't want to do anything to further enflame that, irrational as it may be.

It's not based on agreement with your position, which is coming from a place of hysteria.

Excuse me, but you are a retarded person, why should I ever trust your judgment on what you "seem to hear" someone saying? You know, we have TV's down in Alabama, and I've watched the same moderate Muslims you have, and that was not what I understood at all. From what I heard, they believe this mosque is a bad idea for their religion, it doesn't promote unity, it doesn't promote tolerance, it doesn't bridge anything... it is a defiant symbol of conquest, and will be viewed as such by the radical elements within their religion.

 

[Onceler]

Excuse me, but you are a retarded person, why should I ever trust your judgment on what you "seem to hear" someone saying? You know, we have TV's down in Alabama, and I've watched the same moderate Muslims you have, and that was not what I understood at all. From what I heard, they believe this mosque is a bad idea for their religion, it doesn't promote unity, it doesn't promote tolerance, it doesn't bridge anything... it is a defiant symbol of conquest, and will be viewed as such by the radical elements within their religion.

I'm sure you have TV's in Alabama. What concerns me if the filter through which your deranged mind sees everything; as you have admitted, you think every Muslim is "dangerous" and "radical," and an "enemy of freedom." According to you, "they" are the ones who attacked us on 9/11.

And yes - they do think it's a bad idea, but not for the reasons you state. That's your built-in spin device telling you that.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

You lied that President Obama is cheerleading this Community Center.... or even that he is in favor of it....

No, the president speaks for himself, I don't. I also don't control public perceptions, everyone is free to decide whether Obama is in favor of the mosque, based on his own statements. If you don't feel that Obama is cheerleading the mosque or is not in favor of it, that's your perception... unfortunately, the vast majority of America doesn't share it with you. Sorry... I can't do anything about that in my somewhat limited role as a Living Legend!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I'm sure you have TV's in Alabama. What concerns me if the filter through which your deranged mind sees everything; as you have admitted, you think every Muslim is "dangerous" and "radical," and an "enemy of freedom." According to you, "they" are the ones who attacked us on 9/11.

And yes - they do think it's a bad idea, but not for the reasons you state. That's your built-in spin device telling you that.

No sir, I am sorry, you are not going to be permitted to LIE... I have NEVER stated that every Muslim is dangerous, radical, or an enemy of freedom. This is something you WISH that I had stated, so you could make the argument that I am an intolerant bigot, but it's not what I have EVER stated.

 

[Onceler]

No sir, I am sorry, you are not going to be permitted to LIE... I have NEVER stated that every Muslim is dangerous, radical, or an enemy of freedom. This is something you WISH that I had stated, so you could make the argument that I am an intolerant bigot, but it's not what I have EVER stated.

Cue Twilight Zone music.

You said each of those things in the past 48 hours.

 

[Southern Chicken]

Now you are reverting back to the argument that this is about disallowing the practice of the Islamic faith within proximity of ground zero, and no one has stated that as an opposition to the mosque being planned. I'm sorry, but your little talking point trying to pretend this is about denying Muslims the right to express their religion, has already failed.

This is about allowing a Trophy of Conquest to be built by radical Muslims, in the shadow of ground zero, where they killed 3,000 Americans. If anything, your point only illustrates this facility is certainly not "needed" to enable the worshiping by Muslims, they have plenty of other places to practice their religion, as you have pointed out, this one is not needed.

This is where "your little talking point has failed" You Failed to prove that this building is:

A) built by radical muslims
b) a Trophy of Conquest



PROVE Either DIXIE or stop lying.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Cue Twilight Zone music.

You said each of those things in the past 48 hours.

Well looks like you're going to have to prove that, because I am saying you are lying, and I didn't say that. You see, when you have two people discussing what was said, it is usually a safe bet that each of them know damn well what they said, they might be confused about what the other party said, but they are generally familiar with their own words.

So, put up, or shut up, Rod Sterling!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

This is where "your little talking point has failed" You Failed to prove that this building is:

A) built by radical muslims
b) a Trophy of Conquest

PROVE Either DIXIE or stop lying.

A) The man building it believes 9/11 was the result of US policy, and Osama Bin Laden was "made in the USA." He also believes the US should be "Sharia compliant" ...which means, he believes we should live under Sharia law, like the radical Muslims. He refused to condemn Hammas as a terror organization, and has stated he will accept funding for the mosque from Iran and Saudi Arabia, where radical Islam is the only practice of Islam in the region.

B) History. Muslims have traditionally built mosques at the sites of great Islamic battles. I could reel off the list, but it would take most of my afternoon to do so. The name chosen for this particular trophy mosque, is a tribute to Cordoba, Spain... Where the Great Islamic Caliphate capitol once stood... where they built a mosque on the ruins of an Islamic conquest.

 

[Onceler]

"believes 9/11 was the result of US policy"

Try to answer this objectively, without going off on a rant (bet you can't): do you think 9/11 would have happened if the U.S. hadn't been involved in the Middle East over the past 3 decades?

 

[DamnYankee]

How about that?

The real debate begins and ol Dix tucks tail between legs and goes cowering home just like a frightened little coward.

Have you ever debated?

 

[Southern Chicken]

A) The man building it believes 9/11 was the result of US policy, and Osama Bin Laden was "made in the USA." He also believes the US should be "Sharia compliant" ...which means, he believes we should live under Sharia law, like the radical Muslims. He refused to condemn Hammas as a terror organization, and has stated he will accept funding for the mosque from Iran and Saudi Arabia, where radical Islam is the only practice of Islam in the region.

B) History. Muslims have traditionally built mosques at the sites of great Islamic battles. I could reel off the list, but it would take most of my afternoon to do so. The name chosen for this particular trophy mosque, is a tribute to Cordoba, Spain... Where the Great Islamic Caliphate capitol once stood... where they built a mosque on the ruins of an Islamic conquest.

A)If Feisal Abdul Rauf or the committee to build the Cordoba Mosque were guilty of terrorist acts, then they would be rightly charged. Denying civil rights to Americans based on belief rather than acts is fundamentally illogical, irrational and unconstitutional.

Everything I have read says that he is well respected within the interfaith community and is an ardently pro-American Muslim leader. I've read all kinds of blogs and similarly dubious sources that say he is Anti-American, but those all seem to stem from three out-of-context statements that he has made publicly.

First, that America "was an accessory" to the 9/11 deaths. Now that is how everyone is positioning it, but the quote I read said "American foreign policy was an accessory", and in that he is correct. Rauf goes on to say that America's policy of supporting brutal dictators in the Middle East results in radicalization and anger, and he is correct. That does not make America "at fault", and he is not blaming the victims. He is talking about the realities of the political situation which gives rise to this kind of radicalized Islam.

The second thing I see him being attacked for was his refusal to comment on whether or not Hamas was a terrorist organization. To me it certainly is, and for all I know he agrees with me. However, in his position his ability to act as a moderate Islamist is dependent on his ability to reach a wide audience; and alienating a widely popular and influential Islamist group endangers his ability to do that.

The third area that the man has been attacked for was his comments about World War 2; specifically that "The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

Now, every response I've read sees this as some sort of attempt to establish moral relativism, but the more obvious interpretation is simply this: Christianity doesn't encourage the slaughter of innocent civilians in War, but it still happens, and the same is true of Islam.

Is there any evidence that he has an agenda other than promoting better relations between Islam (and Muslims)

b) SO?