No evidence White House involved in ‘Fast and Furious’

Superfreak said:
Lobbying is not a bribe, because we say so. Even though we all know it is.

We will call smuggling 'gun walking' because smuggling is wrong.
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No, we call it "gunwalking" because we don't take the guns across the borders ourselves. If we did that, that would be smuggling. We let other people smuggle the guns. That's not smuggling. That's letting the guns "walk."


Superfreak said:
We will pretend that handing a murderer a loaded weapon doesn't make us complicit when said murder pulls the trigger.
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We didn't hand loaded weapons to murderers. We permitted suspected arms dealers to purchase shitloads of high powered weaponry.


Superfreak said:
We will knowingly sell weapons to people who otherwise would not be able to purchase them, knowing that the guns will go to criminals in Mexico, won't tell the Mexican government and then when the known criminals go around using those guns to kill people we can proclaim 'gee, I don't think that was illegal.'
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Well, was it illegal? I mean, it sounds really bad and all but what specific law does it violate?
 
BAN HAMMER said:
Then why, with such great and grand connections and materials, would they go and pay RETAIL (I.E. higher than black market prices) for 2000 guns? Would that money not be better suited for other things? Like political bribes, or increasing their distribution network?

I mean seriously, let's break this down. Suppose they bought absolutely cheap as fuck guns, like a HiPoint C9. They're around $130 out the door. That would mean they spent over $250,000 dollars on guns that they supposedly don't even need. And since you're adding the prospect that they have access to high grade weapons, then they wouldn't even bother with the HiPoints.

Now yes, in several cases funds were furnished by the ATF, so in those instances free guns are free guns.
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They got 50 Cals too... Used them to shoot down a Mexican helicopter...

http://www.examiner.com/article/fast-and-furious-weapons-tied-to-high-profile-killing-mexico

Yaay!
 
BAN HAMMER said:
No, they didn't. When the buyers went to purchase said guns, on multiple occasions the NICS (background) check came back as a DO NOT SELL. The ATF then ordered the shops to sell anyways.

But even if straw purchases were the entirety of the operation (they comprised a small minority), they STILL would be breaking the law because straw purchases are illegal and allowing them to happen is a violation of federal law.

And that doesn't even touch the whole "letting them cross the board to the hands of paramilitary groups" thing.
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Allowing something to happen that is illegal is not by itself illegal. What law prohibits the ATF from ordering stores to sell guns to people that the NICS check comes back DO NOT SELL. That's where I'm having the hang up.

If a cop watches me buy a bag of weed, roll and joint and smoke it, he isn't guilty of smoking weed.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Allowing something to happen that is illegal is not by itself illegal. What law prohibits the ATF from ordering stores to sell guns to people that the NICS check comes back DO NOT SELL. That's where I'm having the hang up.

If a cop watches me buy a bag of weed, roll and joint and smoke it, he isn't guilty of smoking weed.
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Actively supplying somebody you know will commit murder would make you an accomplice to the murder. If in the act of a felony any active crime committed during that felony that caused a death would be felony murder and charged as first degree murder even for "accomplices"...

If a cop gives you the weed or actively participates in your getting it, he commits a crime. If you kill somebody while on it... He'd have some trouble.
 
Superfreak said:
LIAR. Can't help but notice that you can't explain your position. Why is that LIAR? You went full retard and you are never supposed to go full retard...
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I explained it, read this thread its all here. Anyone can see it if they simply read the thread.
 
Jarod said:
I explained it, read this thread its all here. Anyone can see it if they simply read the thread.
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Show us the post number(s) that explained it Jarod, because I think you are lying. You never explained how my statement was an attack on assault rifles or the 2nd Amendment. Do so or once again you have proven yourself to be a liar.
 
Superfreak said:
Show us the post number(s) that explained it Jarod, because I think you are lying. You never explained how my statement was an attack on assault rifles or the 2nd Amendment. Do so or once again you have proven yourself to be a liar.
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Ive done that already, as of now, Ill simply refer you to this thread.
 
Jarod said:
Ive done that already, as of now, Ill simply refer you to this thread.
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LMAO... you fucking liar... point out the post. You have not pointed it out. You are lying yet again. It is not a long thread Jarod. I have read it multiple times from the point where you stated that I 'attacked assault rifles and the 2nd Amendment'. NO WHERE did you explain that accusation. You simply said look at post 111. and I reposted it in post 201.

So show us where you explained how I attacked assault rifles and the 2nd Amendment Jarod. Or you are again a fucking liar.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Allowing something to happen that is illegal is not by itself illegal. What law prohibits the ATF from ordering stores to sell guns to people that the NICS check comes back DO NOT SELL. That's where I'm having the hang up.

If a cop watches me buy a bag of weed, roll and joint and smoke it, he isn't guilty of smoking weed.
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It is not just 'allowing' it to happen. They ARRANGED for it to happen. They took an ACTIVE role in it. Not simply passive.
 
Superfreak said:
It is not just 'allowing' it to happen. They ARRANGED for it to happen. They took an ACTIVE role in it. Not simply passive.
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Not really. They didn't arrange for shit. They simply didn't stop gun runners from purchasing large numbers of guns and didn't stop gun dealers from selling to them.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Not really. They didn't arrange for shit. They simply didn't stop gun runners from purchasing large numbers of guns and didn't stop gun dealers from selling to them.
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Wrong again Dungster... the people buying guns would not have been allowed to purchase them if the ATF hadn't arranged for them to bypass the background check.
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
I'm not seeing any meaningful distinction between what I'm saying and what you are saying.
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The ATF took an active role in the illegal sale of arms to smugglers. They are participating in the crime in that they arranged for the smugglers to bypass security background checks. Without the active participation of the ATF, they would not have had the guns that killed Agent Terry and a couple hundred (so far) innocent Mexican civilians.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... you fucking liar... point out the post. You have not pointed it out. You are lying yet again. It is not a long thread Jarod. I have read it multiple times from the point where you stated that I 'attacked assault rifles and the 2nd Amendment'. NO WHERE did you explain that accusation. You simply said look at post 111. and I reposted it in post 201.

So show us where you explained how I attacked assault rifles and the 2nd Amendment Jarod. Or you are again a fucking liar.
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Again, I will simply refer you to this entire thread.
 
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