NFL: League NOT seeking mandate for players to stand during anthem

[dukkha]

IMHO it was wrong to ever marry the 2 issues together in the 1st place. It caused division and disunity.
Let the pre-game networks tape some interviews during the week with players who can speak clearly, without distractions about their racial concerns.
And, then unite to respectfully honor the flag and anthem of the UNITED States.

absolutely it did.
And most Americans do not appreciate that conflation of events..
Yours is a good idea to bring awareness without sowing disrespect and disunity.

There is more then 1 way to skin a cat.

 

[dukkha]

Get this - the agenda is expanding:


CNN contributor Donte Stallworth said Saturday that the NFL kneeling protests aren’t just about police brutality and racism, but also about the “gender pay gap.”

Stallworth, a former NFL wide receiver, said, “The number one stated goal was to bring awareness to a lot of these issues and again, its a broad spectrum of issues. Again, it’s not just police brutality and community policing.”

“It’s also, again from what I’m hearing from players directly involved in these talks–they’re telling me it’s also about the gender pay gap, it’s also about housing discrimination, they have so many things that they are interested in and advocating for and they want the NFL to take ownership in and help be able to use the NFL’s platform. Not just the players platform but the NFL’s platform and that from what I am hearing is a big conversation.”

WELCOME TO THE SJW NATIONAL PROTEST LEAGUE




http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/14/cnn-contributor-nfl-kneeling-is-also-about-gender-pay-gap-video/?utm_source=site-share

...further muddying whatever message was intended.

 

[cawacko]

I am curious to this idea that capitalism and free markets oppress black people.

I live in SF which is the most liberal area of the country. The Silicon Valley and the tech sector are arguably our most capitalist. So are these liberal/libertarian leanings tech geeks who vote Democratic and want to change the world with technology oppressing black people and being racist?

 

[Cypress]

bird dogging me with issues outside the OP is gossipy/girlish type of posting.
further :cherry picking a part of my quote is a disservice to the readers-hopefully I need not explain why?

I have given sound reasoning for why some statues should be removed and others not.
I am not about to continue your de-railment of this topic in a desperate 1/2 measured attempt to do whatever you think you are accomplishing

Here is a tip, Einstein. Why don't you stop lecturing black people on the proper way to protest. Same goes for brown, white, and purple people. Short of violence and mayhem, I do not recall the Constitution placing limits on the "proper" way to petition the government for our grievances.

Being one of the nation's foremost apologists for treasonous Confederate generals, you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[dukkha]

Here is a tip, Einstein. Why don't you stop lecturing black people on the proper way to protest. Same goes for brown, white, and purple people. Short of violence and mayhem, I do not recall the Constitution placing limits on the "proper" way to petition the government for our grievances.

Being one of the nation's foremost apologists for treasonous Confederate generals, you don't have a leg to stand on.

incredible stupidity and dishonesty combined.. since when is discussing like we do here EVERY DAY "lecturing?"

You have the most annoying sanctimonious habit of lecturing anyone that you come in contact with!
You have lectured me on so many subjects ( calling out racists/Rohingya-buddhist conflict/Hillary etc.)
that I can't even recall. Take some of your own unsolicited advice

 

[Althea]

Would you be so kind as to share how the '94 crime bill, of which money went to build federal prisons, but not private prisons, went to the private prison industry

If you aren't going to read my posts before quoting, why would I waste my time? You don't understand the concept of overcrowded Fed prisons needing private prisons to house the explosion of prisoners created by '3 strikes' legislation, and tougher drug laws? Who do you think pays the private prisons to house inmates?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/prison-privatization_b_1414467.html

According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the majority of those being held in federal prisons are convicted of drug offenses — namely, marijuana. Presently, one out of every 100 Americans is serving time behind bars.
Little wonder, then, that public prisons are overcrowded. Yet while providing security, housing, food, medical care, etc., for six million Americans is a hardship for cash-strapped states, to profit-hungry corporations such as Corrections Corp of America (CCA) and GEO Group, the leaders in the partnership corrections industry, it’s a $70 billion gold mine. Thus, with an eye toward increasing its bottom line, CCA has floated a proposal to prison officials in 48 states offering to buy and manage public prisons at a substantial cost savings to the states. In exchange, and here’s the kicker, the prisons would have to contain at least 1,000 beds and states would have agree to maintain a 90 percent occupancy rate in the privately run prisons for at least 20 years.
The problem with this scenario, as Roger Werholtz, former Kansas secretary of corrections, recognizes is that while states may be tempted by the quick infusion of cash, they “would be obligated to maintain these (occupancy) rates and subtle pressure would be applied to make sentencing laws more severe with a clear intent to drive up the population.” Unfortunately, that’s exactly what has happened. Among the laws aimed at increasing the prison population and growing the profit margins of special interest corporations like CCA are three-strike laws (mandating sentences of 25 years to life for multiple felony convictions) and “truth-in-sentencing” legislation (mandating that those sentenced to prison serve most or all of their time).

Wanna invest?
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-prison-business-2012-3#-1


A lot of words here, so make sure you read carefully.

The Beginning of the Modern Private Prison IndustryAs incarceration rates and sentence length rose, in part due to stricter sentencing laws in the1980’s and 1990’s, prison populations exploded; by 1990, state prison populations reached 115 percent oftheir highest capacity. State officials traditionally finance the construction of new prisons using generalobligation bonds, which require that voters approve the new project through a referendum. While voterssupported criminal justice policies that increased incarceration, they did not always support the referendaauthorizing expanded prison capacity; voters rejected an average of 60 percent of prison bond referendain the 1980s.







The first private prison at the state level opened in Kentucky in 19862and the first federal prisoncontract began in 1997. While states tend to contract out some prison services like telephone calls andmedical care, this analysis focuses on prisons that are fully operated by private companies. Figure 1shows the expansion of the private prison sector since data collection began in 1999. In 2014, 131,000inmates were held in private prison facilities under the jurisdiction of 30 states and the federal Bureau ofPrisons (BOP). Although less than 14 percent of all prisoners are held at the federal level, much of thegrowth in the overall private prison population has occurred at the federal level. The share of federalprisoners held in private prisons increased from 3 percent in 1999 to 19 percent in 2014—notably inimmigration detention centers. However, in September 2016, the BOP announced their intention to phaseout private prison contracts over the next five years.

 

[Althea]

Also, all NFL games have some time of pre-game show. A lot of those times (on TV) they devote 5 minutes or so to a particular player and a type of cause, personal or community activity he's involved with. So, there would then be no need to associate patriotic ceremonies with everyone standing and participating, with outside issues. Seems to me that this would solve a lot of problems for everybody. Just a thought.

You don't get it. The fact that you are twisted into knots over this, is the exact reason it happens during the anthem.

 

[Stretch]

Short of violence and mayhem, I do not recall the Constitution placing limits on the "proper" way to petition the government for our grievances.

Know Your Rights:
Demonstrations and Protests
General guidelines

Can my free speech be restricted because of what I say—even if it is
controversial?
No. The First Amendment prohibits restrictions based on the content of speech.
However, this does not mean that the Constitution completely protects all types
of free speech activity in every circumstance. Police and government officials are
allowed to place certain nondiscriminatory and narrowly drawn "time, place and
manner" restrictions on the exercise of First Amendment rights. Any such
restrictions must apply to all speech regardless of its point of view.

Where can I engage in free speech activity?
Generally, all types of expression are constitutionally protected in traditional
"public forums" such as streets, sidewalks and parks. In addition, your speech
activity may be permitted to take place at other public locations that the
government has opened up to similar speech activities, such as the plazas in
front of government buildings.

What about free speech activity on private property?
The general rule is that the owners of private property may set rules limiting your
free speech. If you disobey the property owner's rules, they can order you off
their property (and have you arrested for trespassing if you do not comply).

Do I need a permit before I engage in free speech activity?
Not usually. However, certain types of events require permits. Generally, these
events are:
• A march or parade that does not stay on the sidewalk, and other events
that require blocking traffic or street closure
• A large rally requiring the use of sound amplifying devices; or
• A rally at certain designated parks or plazas
Many permit procedures require that the application be filed several weeks in
advance of the event. However, the First Amendment prohibits such an advance
notice requirement from being used to prevent rallies or demonstrations that are
rapid responses to unforeseeable and recent events. Also, many permit
ordinances give a lot of discretion to the police or city officials to impose
conditions on the event, such as the route of a march or the sound levels of
amplification equipment. Such restrictions may violate the First Amendment if
they are unnecessary for traffic control or public safety, or if they interfere
significantly with effective communication with the intended audience. A permit
cannot be denied because the event is controversial or will express unpopular
views.

Specific problems
If organizers have not obtained a permit, where can a march take place?
If marchers stay on the sidewalks and obey traffic and pedestrian signals, their
activity is constitutionally protected even without a permit. Marchers may be
required to allow enough space on the sidewalk for normal pedestrian traffic and
may not maliciously obstruct or detain passers-by.

May I distribute leaflets and other literature on public sidewalks?
Yes. You may approach pedestrians on public sidewalks with leaflets,
newspapers, petitions and solicitations for donations without a permit. Tables
may also be set up on sidewalks for these purposes if sufficient room is left for
pedestrians to pass. These types of free speech activities are legal as long as
entrances to buildings are not blocked and passers-by are not physically and
maliciously detained. However, a permit may be required to set up a table.

Do I have a right to picket on public sidewalks?
Yes, and this is also an activity for which a permit is not required. However,
picketing must be done in an orderly, non-disruptive fashion so that pedestrians
can pass by and entrances to buildings are not blocked.

Can government impose a financial charge on exercising free speech
rights?
Some local governments have required a fee as a condition of exercising free
speech rights, such as application fees, security deposits for clean-up, or
charges to cover overtime police costs. Charges that cover actual administrative
costs have been permitted by some courts. However, if the costs are greater
because an event is controversial (or a hostile crowd is expected)—such as
requiring a large insurance policy—then the courts will not permit it. Also,
regulations with financial requirements should include a waiver for groups that
cannot afford the charge, so that even grassroots organizations can exercise
their free speech rights. Therefore, a group without significant financial resources
should not be prevented from engaging in a march simply because it cannot
afford the charges the City would like to impose.

Do counter-demonstrators have free speech rights?
Yes. Although counter-demonstrators should not be allowed to physically disrupt
the event they are protesting, they do have the right to be present and to voice
their displeasure. Police are permitted to keep two antagonistic groups separated
but should allow them to be within the general vicinity of one another.

Does it matter if other speech activities have taken place at the same
location?
Yes. The government cannot discriminate against activities because of the
controversial content of the message. Thus, if you can show that similar events
to yours have been permitted in the past (such as a Veterans or Memorial Day
parade), then that is an indication that the government is involved in selective
enforcement if they are not granting you a permit.

What other types of free speech activity are constitutionally protected?
The First Amendment covers all forms of communication including music,
theater, film and dance. The Constitution also protects actions that symbolically
express a viewpoint. Examples of these symbolic forms of speech include
wearing masks and costumes or holding a candlelight vigil. However, symbolic
acts and civil disobedience that involve illegal conduct may be outside the realm
of constitutional protections and can sometimes lead to arrest and conviction.
Therefore, while sitting in a road may be expressing a political opinion, the act of
blocking traffic may lead to criminal punishment.

What should I do if my rights are being violated by a police officer?
It rarely does any good to argue with a street patrol officer. Ask to talk to a
supervisor and explain your position to him or her. Point out that you are not
disrupting anyone else's activity and that the First Amendment protects your
actions. If you do not obey an officer, you might be arrested and taken from the
scene. You should not be convicted if a court concludes that your First
Amendment rights have been violated.

-ACLU

 

[Althea]

She wants all Libertarians to die. Who else has been as vocal as Libertarians about ending the drug war? No one.

The most vocal Libertarian in the Senate feels that restaurants should be able to turn away black people. He claims the free market would correct the issue, as people would eventually stop frequenting that place.

In this era of a pro Nazi White House, people would flock to that restaurant in order to avoid having to mingle with 'others'.

 

[Stretch]

NFL players are employees and work for the team owner, not for the stadium.

 

[Stretch]

The most vocal Libertarian in the Senate feels that restaurants should be able to turn away black people. He claims the free market would correct the issue, as people would eventually stop frequenting that place.

In this era of a pro Nazi White House, people would flock to that restaurant in order to avoid having to mingle with 'others'.

WHAAAAAT? Who is this idiot Senator?

 

[Althea]

NFL players are employees and work for the team owner, not for the stadium.

Unions go out on strike all the time in an act of protest. Why does it matter who works for whom?

 

[Althea]

WHAAAAAT? Who is this idiot Senator?

Rand Paul...like his father before him. He gets himself dizzy when he tries to backtrack from his original comments. You can see he tries to walk a fine line, while still adhering to his belief that private businesses should not be encumbered with pesky Fed guidelines with respect to racism, ADA compliance, etc.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...511538ae90a4_blog.html?utm_term=.cdea9cb56cb6

 

[blackascoal]

i've gone over this a zillion times...
You not caring about the flag/anthem being hijacked for a marginal issue
(marginal meaning important -but far from universal) is the minority.
More people care about the brief but significant nod to the flag/anthem "and which it stands" then not.
America is still a fairly patriotic country.

talking about it isn't influencing opinion, nor it is specially productive without means of redress.

Trump was speaking for us deplorable. I do not expect or particularly desire your pleasure

OK .glad we agree on this. I have given you a couple of scenarios of eliciting awareness without the blowback from disrespecting the anthem
good protests also work to change public opinion. It's more then base awareness that effects change

Stopped right there at the bolded. Couldn't read another word.

A 'marginal issue.' Innocent people are being murdered and you call that a marginal issue.

You've validated everything I said about you not having a clue.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[blackascoal]

Rand Paul...like his father before him. He gets himself dizzy when he tries to backtrack from his original comments. You can see he tries to walk a fine line, while still adhering to his believe that private businesses should not be encumbered with pesky Fed guidelines with respect to racism, ADA compliance, etc.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...511538ae90a4_blog.html?utm_term=.cdea9cb56cb6

THAT is absolutely true.

 

[Althea]

THAT is absolutely true.

So in Libertarianland, how many people must die or be maimed before 'the free market' works itself out?

 

[cawacko]

The most vocal Libertarian in the Senate feels that restaurants should be able to turn away black people. He claims the free market would correct the issue, as people would eventually stop frequenting that place.

In this era of a pro Nazi White House, people would flock to that restaurant in order to avoid having to mingle with 'others'.

Yes, he doesn't believe it's the federal govts role to determine who can fratinize with who. And the reason restaurants and other places wouldn't go back to the days of segregation is because those who originally segregated made more money serving the entire market. And in 2017 people would be rightfully ostracized setting up a restaurant that wouldn't serve everyone as well as the people who would frequent it

 

[cawacko]

So in Libertarianland, how many people must die or be maimed before 'the free market' works itself out?

You tell us as you and your democrats support the drug war and militarization of the police

 

[Bill]

Ya now there is a memo from league commissioner sent to all league owners for their players to stand.

Maybe you need to ask him to resend it...​

 

[Boris The Animal]

The overpaid America hating ingrates can keep shitting on our flag and country and the owners can sit back watch their shit business go right down the toilet.

The NFL sucks.

The real reason is that Koepernick is nothing but a third rate backup QB and attention whore. This is why he's persona non grata in the NFL.