New peak rates mean charging electric cars more expensive than petrol

[Joe Capitalist]

Even the willfully blind are rapidly losing the ability to avoid seeing that America is in big trouble....your con job no longer works.

Yadda, yadda, yadda. We hear this from you right wing morons everytime there's a Dem in the White House. We heard it for eight years during Clinton yet things turned out pretty good. Then we heard it for eight years during Obama. Remember the "if Obama becomes president, America as we know it will cease to exist". Yeah, that was a good one. You MAGA morons are like The Boy who Cried 'Wolf'.
You spew the same bullshit over and over again, yet over the last 30 years of presidential elections, the Republicans have only won the popular vote ONCE!
The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Your bullshit isn't working, Fawkewe10.

 

[Into the Night]

Wrong .the car prices are about the same.

Lie.

They have much lower costs in electricity over gas.

Lie. EVs use almost twice as much energy as gasoline cars. You still burn fuel to drive them.

They have a lot less maintenance.

Lie. Maintenance is the same for the same newness of a car. EVs are MUCH more expensive to repair.

They save many thousands over the lifetime of the vehicle.

Lie.

The infrastructure bill dealt with charging stations.

Lie. Charging stations require power generating capacity to be increased, and transmission line capacity to be increased. That's NOT in the infrastructure bill.

Try and keep up. I also gave you a cite on how oil companies are getting into the charging station business. You really are clueless.

Irrelevant. Insufficient power generating capacity and distribution capacity.

 

[Into the Night]

The sky is falling!!!! The sky is falling!!! Run for your lives!!! Run for your lives!!!

Cliche fallacy.

More bullshit Chicken Little scare tactics from the radical right. Whatever happened to Hillary's email server and President Obama's Birth Certificate?

Crimes they still haven't paid for. Cliche fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

I love how ItN tries to convince us that EVs are less efficient than Gas cars.

They are. It takes twice as much energy to charge and drive an EV to go the same distance as a similar sized gasoline car. Again, you are ignoring losses in power generation, transformer waste heat, transmission line waste heat, distribution line waste heat, charger waste heat, battery heating, and motor waste heat.

Gas cars lose much of their energy in heat from friction.

So do EVs.

That's why they need a lubrication and cooling system.

So do EVs.

EVs have neither

Lie. They have both.

and don't need to maintain these systems with fluids.

Yes you do.

Also, with EVs Regenerative Braking, you rarely use the brakes.

Heating the batteries instead.

Thus, less maintenance.

Nope. Maintenance is the same between both cars.

Also, no valves, no camshaft, no transmission.

EVs have transmissions. Some even have valves.

ItN has no fucking idea what he's talking about. Either he's a moron or he knows he's lying but he's saying it to be in lockstep with the other right wing morons.

No, that's YOU. You have no idea what is an EV.

The batteries are liquid cooled.
The motor is liquid cooled.
The charger is air cooled.
The distribution and transmission lines are air cooled.
The transformers are liquid cooled.
The power generator is air cooled.
The driver is a heat engine.

No, you don't get to ignore the wasted energy it takes to charge your stupid car.

 

[Nordberg]

Lie.

Lie. EVs use almost twice as much energy as gasoline cars. You still burn fuel to drive them.

Lie. Maintenance is the same for the same newness of a car. EVs are MUCH more expensive to repair.

Lie.

Lie. Charging stations require power generating capacity to be increased, and transmission line capacity to be increased. That's NOT in the infrastructure bill.

Irrelevant. Insufficient power generating capacity and distribution capacity.

You do know , idiot, that I provided cites showing exactly what I post. I do not drive by like you and say No a dozen times and think I won a debate. Power companies are building up the infrastructure.. They are not impotent like you. They are doing things to make EVs the future. They have committed to the future. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/7/22822454/power-companies-utilities-ev-fast-charging-network You are a special kind of stupid.

 

[ptif219]

Are you suggesting that farmland is scarce because it's being repurposed for solar farms?

When hundreds of thousands of acres are used for solar panels it is obvious it will cause a food shortage

 

[moon]

Okay. So you can't define either of them. They remain undefined buzzwords, and chants by the Church of Green.

Your brain is upside-down.

 

[Diesel]

When hundreds of thousands of acres are used for solar panels it is obvious it will cause a food shortage

Oh, so you're an idiot. I see.

 

[Into the Night]

You do know , idiot, that I provided cites showing exactly what I post.

Propaganda and marketing campaigns mean nothing. Holy Links are not a proof. You STILL haven't figured that out. You are STILL ignoring the current state of the power grids, the required power they will have to provide to charge all those cars, and that currently less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs. Special pleading is a fallacy, dumbass.

I do not drive by like you and say No a dozen times and think I won a debate.

You are not debating. There are no debates on JPP. Just conversations. YOU are preaching, not debating.

Power companies are building up the infrastructure..

No, they are not. Stop making shit up.

They are not impotent like you. They are doing things to make EVs the future.

No, they are not. Stop making shit up.

They have committed to the future. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/7/22822454/power-companies-utilities-ev-fast-charging-network You are a special kind of stupid.

Charging stations are not generating capacity or transmission lines. Special pleading fallacy.

 

[Into the Night]

When hundreds of thousands of acres are used for solar panels it is obvious it will cause a food shortage

More wind generators than solar panels. Neither is really a problem as far as farmland goes.

Larger farms will often use windmills to pump water up from a nearby source to irrigate their crops. It's a sensible use for them.
Solar panels are the most expensive method of generating power. Windmills are the 2nd most expensive.

Neither will produce enough power to charge the fleet of EVs these idiots seem to think is going to be built. They're piddle power.

A single coal plant will produce more power than a State filled with windmills.


You will notice, though, that the only thing these idiots can do is call you names. They have no argument left. They just post insults...nothing else.
It means you're on the right track and you have a lot that is correct and true.

 

[Nordberg]

When hundreds of thousands of acres are used for solar panels it is obvious it will cause a food shortage

No way. They are not put on valuable land. Do you think we are running out of open acreage? Do you ever drive outside the city? That is definitely not a problem.

 

[ptif219]

Oh, so you're an idiot. I see.

You are blind to facts and reality

 

[ptif219]

More wind generators than solar panels. Neither is really a problem as far as farmland goes.

Larger farms will often use windmills to pump water up from a nearby source to irrigate their crops. It's a sensible use for them.
Solar panels are the most expensive method of generating power. Windmills are the 2nd most expensive.

Neither will produce enough power to charge the fleet of EVs these idiots seem to think is going to be built. They're piddle power.

A single coal plant will produce more power than a State filled with windmills.


You will notice, though, that the only thing these idiots can do is call you names. They have no argument left. They just post insults...nothing else.
It means you're on the right track and you have a lot that is correct and true.

They are taking over hundreds of thousands of farmland. Farmers rent the land out because it pays more than growing crops

 

[ptif219]

No way. They are not put on valuable land. Do you think we are running out of open acreage? Do you ever drive outside the city? That is definitely not a problem.

You are ignoring my links then


https://www.solarunitedneighbors.org/news/solar-farms-land-use-concerns/

https://therealdeal.com/tristate/2021/11/29/the-upstate-land-grab-behind-the-solar-power-boom/

https://www.indystar.com/story/news...bles-energy-mammoth-starke-county/8529759002/

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The point of electric cars isn't to save money.
There was always the possibility that driving would be more expensive with electric cars.

It's to help save the environment, although I suspect that it's too late now, anyway.
In all likelihood, humanity is on the brink of merciful extinction,
so perhaps we should all just do whatever the hell we want.

And, that's dubious on its own. Those claiming that it will "save the planet" or some such are usually scientific and engineering illiterates parroting favored political dogma.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Both have to be manufactured. You will put more energy into manufacturing them then you get by using the fuel in a fuel cell.

If you are using massive amounts of nuclear power on your grid it doesn't matter. Solar and / or wind could be used too as the manufacturing process can be intermittent to some degree.

 

[Into the Night]

No way. They are not put on valuable land. Do you think we are running out of open acreage? Do you ever drive outside the city? That is definitely not a problem.

How would you know? You don't drive outside the city very far! You said so yourself!

 

[Into the Night]

You are blind to facts and reality

Hatred and anger blinds anyone. It's all they have.

 

[Into the Night]

And, that's dubious on its own. Those claiming that it will "save the planet" or some such are usually scientific and engineering illiterates parroting favored political dogma.

He has already discarded the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. He discards the Chapman cycle as well.
He also discards the engineering requirements to provide the power needed to implement his 'Utopia' of tyranny by mandating electric cars.
He also, of course, discards the effects of free markets and what it will do to the price of raw materials to manufacture all these EVs.

Obviously he figures the planet is somehow 'damaged' and needs 'saving', even though he can't define this 'damage'. Vague meaningless buzzwords like 'climate change' are favored lately (no one has been able to define 'climate change' either!).

 

[Into the Night]

If you are using massive amounts of nuclear power on your grid it doesn't matter.

TANSTAAFL. It does. Nuclear fuel is not renewable, and is heavily controlled by the government. Further, nuclear power is not a solution for these twits since they are afraid of a 'Hiroshima' in their community (which just demonstrates how little know about nuclear fuel!). The SDTC is shutting down it's last nuclear power plant in 2024. The SDTC is importing almost all their power now from the WRIC.

Solar and / or wind could be used too as the manufacturing process can be intermittent to some degree.

Remember, these are the most expensive methods of producing power, watt for watt. You have to transmit it to the hydrogen manufacturing plants too. That's a lotta hydrogen you're talking about there!

Hydrogen today is made by fracturing a hydrocarbon, leaving CO2 as a result. Very little of it is electrolyzed.

Wasting tremendous amounts of power like this to manufacture hydrogen isn't going to work. You are just trying to justify wasting energy. This is wasting even more energy than just using EVs require.

It also has the same problems of charging large numbers of EVs. Generating sufficient power AND transmitting it to where it is needed. You already are aware that electrical power isn't stored. It is generated on demand to the changing loads second by second.
You are already aware what happens when a transmission line that's overloaded sags (until somewhere it eventually touches a tree and trips out).
You are already aware what happens to 2nd and 3rd level relay stations when a transmission trips out like this.

This is how grids collapse.

If operators are fast enough and on the ball, they will shed load before it gets too far. No one wants a blackstart.