Nazis and KKK get laughed at...

Your beloved Democrat Party hasn't changed one bit since it first began with Hamilton. Jefferson describing them to Paine: "It is but too
true that we have a sect preaching up and pouting after an English constitution of king, lords and commons, and
whose heads are itching for crowns, coronets and mitres."
 
Hamilton's Federalist Party was a forerunner to the GOP. Jefferson's DR Party evolved into the Democratic Party, and has been a bane on America ever since. Note the pro-growth, pro industry, pro-market approach championed by Hamilton (who is buried a few blocks from Wall Street), and compare it to Jefferson's economically backward approach. Also, note that Jefferson could only win the 1800 Election via the 3/5 Clause and the first ever Democratic Party urban machine founded in NYC by Aaron Burr (although, the machine was still moot without the 3/5 clause, even if it did deliver NY State to Jefferson).
 
Fascinating history lesson (and Hamilton was born in Nevis), but aside from the bald, unsubstantiated mantra that "nothing has changed", please point out which part of DY's or ThreeDee's posts address the "slightly" more modern issue that we are actually discussing.

Certainly, you two can do better than the 18th Century to describe political behavior OF VOTERS in the 20th and 21st Centuries.
:cool:
Barracuda said:
Really?
Which part of what you said responds to:
"However, I will remind you that it was RADICAL Republicans and CONSERVATIVE Democrats who were at odds back then (1800's).The summary I provided re: the overlap between CONSERVATIVE Repub candidates and CONSERVATIVE Dem voters shows that Party loyalties have shifted based on ideological tenets (States rights, gun rights, Civil Rights Act opposition, etc)."

This is the summary that I referred to and which you have labored long and hard to ignore:

"But now that you have shifted from party labels to ideological labels you still have some 'splaining to do, Scotman/Yankee!

Making convenient and fallacious 'True Scotsman'-type claims demonstrates your inability to explain the huge ideological overlap between A) Mr. Conservative, Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, the Conservative demi-god, and B) the Conservative Dems in the South that voted for them:
  • opposition to Civil Rights Law,
  • States Rights (including segregation of public education),
  • gun rights,
  • religiosity,
  • big on supporting military and support for war in Viet Nam and a generally neo-imperialist foreign policy,
  • John Birch Society-supporting (not sure about Reagan on that one),
  • disagreement with the 1954 Brown vs. Bd of Ed decision (http://spectator.org/archives/2003/0...d-goldwater-do)
and perhaps more.

At least Goldwater lived long enough to come to his senses and denounce the "modern" Conservatives of the kind you seem to admire while kicking other Conservatives under the bus."

So, it is clear that you have NOT already responded to this and I doubt that you are able to.
:cool:
Click to expand...
 
Threedee said:
Hamilton's Federalist Party was a forerunner to the GOP. Jefferson's DR Party evolved into the Democratic Part...
Click to expand...
Actually the opposite is true. Hamilton (a Federalist) was enamored with big government, especially the Brit's monarchy, while Jefferson and Madison (Republicans) outright mocked him for it.
 
DamnYankee said:
Actually the opposite is true. Hamilton (a Federalist) was enamored with big government, especially the Brit's monarchy, while Jefferson and Madison (Republicans) outright mocked him for it.
Click to expand...

THIS is a prime example of why you can't draw straight lines from the 18th Century to the 21st Century.

But tell you what: When you guys figure out whether the GOP descended from Hamilton or Jefferson, let me know,

But in the meanwhile, why not rejoin me in the late 20th and early 21st Centuries and talk about the voting behavior that I have described.
:cool:
 
GOP is decended from The Federalist Party; The Democratic from Jefferson. For those not getting this, I recommend the companion works of Grand Old Party and Party of the People.

The thing Damn Southerner forgets is that the Jeffersonians were in typical Jefferson fashion, lying and hypocritical partisans who only sought to empower the southern states over the north. They made a claim for states rights which they would never live up to. Their allies in the north, such as Burr, created the first urban machines that targeted new immigrant populations.
 
Barracuda said:
THIS is a prime example of why you can't draw straight lines from the 18th Century to the 21st Century.

But tell you what: When you guys figure out whether the GOP descended from Hamilton or Jefferson, let me know,

But in the meanwhile, why not rejoin me in the late 20th and early 21st Centuries and talk about the voting behavior that I have described.
:cool:
Click to expand...

It is a continuous line.

Hamilton was a Federalist, longing for a monarchy type government so he could rule over those less learned than he. Madison and Jefferson were of the opposite; the beginnings of the Republican Party.

Read and learn: http://books.google.com/books/about/Jefferson_and_Madison.html?id=EqXYiU00s_8C
 
Threedee said:
GOP is decended from The Federalist Party; The Democratic from Jefferson. For those not getting this, I recommend the companion works of Grand Old Party and Party of the People.

The thing Damn Southerner forgets is that the Jeffersonians were in typical Jefferson fashion, lying and hypocritical partisans who only sought to empower the southern states over the north. They made a claim for states rights which they would never live up to. Their allies in the north, such as Burr, created the first urban machines that targeted new immigrant populations.
Click to expand...

As usual, almost the complete opposite is true.
 
DamnYankee said:
It is a continuous line.

Hamilton was a Federalist, longing for a monarchy type government so he could rule over those less learned than he. Madison and Jefferson were of the opposite; the beginnings of the Republican Party.

Read and learn: http://books.google.com/books/about/Jefferson_and_Madison.html?id=EqXYiU00s_8C
Click to expand...

So, your sojourn in the wilderness of banishment did not improve your ability to stay on topic and actually discuss the topic at hand.

Not surprising. You have always deflected when you had no answer.
:cool:
 
If the Dems are descended from Hamilton, why is it that Jefferson's party physically became the Democratic Party (dropping the word Republican from its name), while the GOP adopted the economic planks of the Federalist and Whig parties?
 
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