Navy to investigate lewd videos shown on carrier

Mojo said:
I found these comments interesting:

"You appear to be of the impression that the armed forces, including the Navy should not strive for higher standards than our society at large.

Lots of things are "okay" in civilian society that are not okay for the military.

You can't wear certain types of clothing on liberty, display many body piercings, completely cover your body with visible tattoos, download pornography, use file-sharing software, etc.

All of these are intended to preserve good order and discipline. What is acceptable at colleges and civilian cubicles is NOT always acceptable for the military.

The Navy draws its sailors from society, but must continue to set higher standards than your analogy.

Lack of complaints doesn't equate to being right.

Some sailors (including NCO's and officers) won't complain for fear of retribution.

A senior officer in Honors' position must be above reproach at all times. It is a high standard, but that is the only way to ensure our airmen, soldiers, sailors and Marines... all volunteers, will continue to trust in their Commanders when orders are given that may mean life and death.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Though the videos themselves may be immature and boorish, it's shameful that an XO of a capital ship-of-the-line should have ANY role in their production, let alone the lead role."

http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/...probe-lewd-videos-shown-to-carrier-crew/page3
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"Above reproach at all times" is a ridiculous standard. One that most wouldn't even apply to the President, if they did Kennedy wouldn't even be a mention in our textbooks and Clinton's mention would be about how he was thrown out of office. Your point in this post is worthless pedantic cut and paste nonsense. A captain must be perfect at every moment and constantly "above reproach"...

Flat insane. Even Captains are people and nobody can be expected to be "above reproach at all times"...

Now, if you believe he went too far in the video, tell me where. But saying he must be "perfect in every way at all times" is just childspeak for "I'll never back down from even the most insane position when somebody is pointing out how crazy I sound." And then attempting to say that making any videos that entertain is "waste" is just infantile.

Now, let's get back to whether they should they make videos for entertainment purposes and your question: "Is that government waste?", which was the point I am answering (not whether this video went too far, whether there should be ANY videos).

Yes, they should make videos that entertain. Should he have made this one? Maybe not, but they certainly should make videos for many of the reasons I stated previously. Often we created "joke" things like this to have fun, increase camaraderie, and build a community on ships. When your entertainment is limited, you do things like this.
 
Damocles said:
"Above reproach at all times" is a ridiculous standard. One that most wouldn't even apply to the President, if they did Kennedy wouldn't even be a mention in our textbooks and Clinton's mention would be about how he was thrown out of office. Your point in this post is worthless pedantic cut and paste nonsense. A captain must be perfect at every moment and constantly "above reproach"...

Flat insane. Even Captains are people and nobody can be expected to be "above reproach at all times"...

Now, if you believe he went too far in the video, tell me where. But saying he must be "perfect in every way at all times" is just childspeak for "I'll never back down from even the most insane position when somebody is pointing out how crazy I sound." And then attempting to say that making any videos that entertain is "waste" is just infantile.

Now, let's get back to whether they should they make videos for entertainment purposes and your question: "Is that government waste?", which was the point I am answering (not whether this video went too far, whether there should be ANY videos).

Yes, they should make videos that entertain. Should he have made this one? Maybe not, but they certainly should make videos for many of the reasons I stated previously. Often we created "joke" things like this to have fun, increase camaraderie, and build a community on ships. When your entertainment is limited, you do things like this.
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It may seem ridiculous to you, but that IS the standard expected in the Military. Behavior that would get a junior enlisted a quiet, off-the-books reprimandd will get a senior NCO a mention in their jacket, a junior officer an official reprimand with penalty, and a senior officer a possible court. Unfair? in the civilian world (where your presidents live) yes. But in the military, the hierarchy of command cannot be compromised to account for "human behavior".

The hierarchy of command is essential to a well functioning combat unit - and an aircraft carrier IS a combat unit. An officer who is viewed as having "screwed up" simply cannot command the respect that an officer who hass NOT screwed up. The XO screwed up because his actions refused to acknowledge the reality that his command is NOT comprised of a couple thousand horny men, but is, in fact, a mixed audience, some of whom are not only possible, but likely to take offense at his little endeavor.


That being said, and at the risk of offending women, I believe allowing women to serve on combat vessels is a mistake. NOT because I think they cannot handle combat roles, but because combat naval vessels are in a unique circumstance of being a closed society for several months on end. Combat roles are never more prevalent than on a naval vessel. The very acts of practicing their trade on an aircraft carrier is, literally, the most dangerous job in the military. Like real combat, the threat of death from even minor mistakes is a constant presence.

This creates a level of stress that is not present in other types of military units. Not only that, but there is the added factor that while at sea, there is no place the sailors can go to blow off the steam generated by high levels of combat-like stress. And that is during peacetime operations!

But, stress MUST be relieved, or bad things happen, such as increased "small" mistakes - those mistakes that can deal out death in a night trap.

One proven way for men to relieve stress is sexually. Nothing yanks the old libedo into high gear as much as a close brush with death. But women are off limits - so with women around, it only accentuates the stress felt by the men. Training accident statistics bear this out: they went up almost 25% when women were added to the crew of combat vessels, slowly dropped 10% and have stayed there: 15% above when combat ships were stag.

Of course, stag ships do not comprise of men running around dropping the soap to relieve stress. But what it DOES allow is conduct among men which cannot be allowed when women are present - including the occasional stag film run over the ship's entertainment center. Which in turn leads to men "using the purge valve" before hitting the bunks, thus relieving stress in a very old, biologically derived manner.
 
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Damocles said:
That is just one form of training regularly used specifically in team building which enhances the effectiveness of our Navy. You spend a year locked on a boat with limited access to others, tell me what kind of deprivation you feel even with the limited videos available to you.
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Your attempts to inform Mojo, reminds me another poster that was on here that used to just play the devil's advocate to create arguments.
You're wasting your time; because Mojo is just going to continue to throw out straw men and hope one sticks to the wall.
 
Damocles said:
"Above reproach at all times" is a ridiculous standard. One that most wouldn't even apply to the President, if they did Kennedy wouldn't even be a mention in our textbooks and Clinton's mention would be about how he was thrown out of office. Your point in this post is worthless pedantic cut and paste nonsense. A captain must be perfect at every moment and constantly "above reproach"...

Flat insane. Even Captains are people and nobody can be expected to be "above reproach at all times"...

Now, if you believe he went too far in the video, tell me where. But saying he must be "perfect in every way at all times" is just childspeak for "I'll never back down from even the most insane position when somebody is pointing out how crazy I sound." And then attempting to say that making any videos that entertain is "waste" is just infantile.

Now, let's get back to whether they should they make videos for entertainment purposes and your question: "Is that government waste?", which was the point I am answering (not whether this video went too far, whether there should be ANY videos).

Yes, they should make videos that entertain. Should he have made this one? Maybe not, but they certainly should make videos for many of the reasons I stated previously. Often we created "joke" things like this to have fun, increase camaraderie, and build a community on ships. When your entertainment is limited, you do things like this.
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Haven't there been several military leaders, in the past, who were respected by the men he lead; because he wasn't afraid to show that he was human??
hmmmmmmmmmmm
 
Mojo said:
Would that rationale work for you in other situations?
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In other situations? Find me an equivelent situation.

The closest explanation I can give you is to think of going to work in a huge office complex, with a restaurant and a store in it. You go to work on January 3rd, and except for a few times out for lunch or maybe for drinks, you stay in that office complex until Sept or Oct.

Think you might need a little something more than the usual PC office banter to keep you sane?
 
WinterBorn said:
In other situations? Find me an equivelent situation.

The closest explanation I can give you is to think of going to work in a huge office complex, with a restaurant and a store in it. You go to work on January 3rd, and except for a few times out for lunch or maybe for drinks, you stay in that office complex until Sept or Oct.

Think you might need a little something more than the usual PC office banter to keep you sane?
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So your position is that using tax dollars to finance locally-produced "entertainment" is OK as long as the federal personnel in question are living on-premises?

Is this because you imagine that Navy shipboard personnel have no access to any other form of R & R while deployed?
 
Mojo said:
So your position is that using tax dollars to finance locally-produced "entertainment" is OK as long as the federal personnel in question are living on-premises?

Is this because you imagine that Navy shipboard personnel have no access to any other form of R & R while deployed?
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What cost our tax dollars? The video equipment was purchased for valid reasons and was not being used. I am betting its a digital recording, so it wasn't even the use of a disk or tape.

What tax money was spent on this "entertainment".

Just as an FYI, there is a difference between a 9 month cruise and "living on premises". And yes, I am aware they have other forms of entertainment. But with 6 to 9 thousand people onboard, are you wanting to make the entertainment a "one size fits all"?




Let me ask you, should they ban Huckleberry Finn from the ships library?
 
WinterBorn said:
What cost our tax dollars? The video equipment was purchased for valid reasons and was not being used. I am betting its a digital recording, so it wasn't even the use of a disk or tape.

What tax money was spent on this "entertainment".

Just as an FYI, there is a difference between a 9 month cruise and "living on premises". And yes, I am aware they have other forms of entertainment. But with 6 to 9 thousand people onboard, are you wanting to make the entertainment a "one size fits all"?




Let me ask you, should they ban Huckleberry Finn from the ships library?
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So the use of government equipment operated by government employees for "entertainment" purposes is OK with you?
 
Mojo said:
So the use of government equipment operated by government employees for "entertainment" purposes is OK with you?
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I think exceptions can be made for military members on extended cruises. I think the use of gov't equipment for entertainment purposes, within reason, is perfectly fine. I see no harm.

Also, is the offense worth ruining careers and spending millions to investigate and prosecute? If gov't workers check their personal email or even post on this website, is that a crime as well?

How are we the tax payers harmed?

So, will you answer my question? Should Huckleberry Finn be in the ships library?
 
WinterBorn said:
I think exceptions can be made for military members on extended cruises. I think the use of gov't equipment for entertainment purposes, within reason, is perfectly fine. I see no harm.

Also, is the offense worth ruining careers and spending millions to investigate and prosecute? If gov't workers check their personal email or even post on this website, is that a crime as well?

How are we the tax payers harmed?

So, will you answer my question? Should Huckleberry Finn be in the ships library?
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The taxpayers have voted in the fiscally-reponsible House majority to cut government waste.

Didn't you hear?
 
Mojo said:
The taxpayers have voted in the fiscally-reponsible House majority to cut government waste.

Didn't you hear?
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You are still dodging my question.

And how was the video recording fiscally irresponsible??
 
WinterBorn said:
You are still dodging my question.

And how was the video recording fiscally irresponsible??
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Inappropriate use of government equipment and misuse of government employee's time springs to mind...


..."The videos, shot and edited using Navy equipment, were shown over the ship's internal system to its nearly 6,000 crew members on a weekly "movie night," the newspaper reports.

In one scene, two female sailors stand in a shower stall, pretending to wash each other. In others, sailors parade in drag, use anti-gay slurs, and simulate masturbation and a rectal exam. Another scene implies an officer is having sex in his stateroom with a donkey..."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/01/02/Navy-probes-condemns-raw-ship-videos/UPI-47331294009807/
 
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