NATO and the US

Baltics are small potatos they dont pose any threat to Russia.
Ukraine straddles the Black Sea, is home to Crimea and the Russian fleet at Sevastopol
and is a BIG country with the east loyal to Russia ( economic and cultural)

the strategic importance of a NATO in the Baltics is really not much of anything - it's on Russias border
but doesn't extend anywhere else
Ukraine connects to NATO countries by land and could be used for a front line land war against Russia



"and is a BIG country with the east loyal to Russia ( economic and cultural)"

Uh, yeah. Any reason Russia is bombing the 'east' into submission if they are so 'loyal'?

Why. Why would Russia even contemplate a 'Land War'? Europe and the rest of the World want to integrate Russia into the global economy. Germany has Nordstream 1, and is ready for Nordstream 2. Why would anyone build into their economy a foreign energy supply if there was some kind of 'War' contemplated?

Putin wants to be the New Czar of Russian People. He fucked up by invading Ukraine. Now, even the Russian Speakers want Putin to LEAVE!
 
"and is a BIG country with the east loyal to Russia ( economic and cultural)"

Uh, yeah. Any reason Russia is bombing the 'east' into submission if they are so 'loyal'?

Why. Why would Russia even contemplate a 'Land War'? Europe and the rest of the World want to integrate Russia into the global economy. Germany has Nordstream 1, and is ready for Nordstream 2. Why would anyone build into their economy a foreign energy supply if there was some kind of 'War' contemplated?

Putin wants to be the New Czar of Russian People. He fucked up by invading Ukraine. Now, even the Russian Speakers want Putin to LEAVE!
Ukraine regulars are in Donbas
= why he's backing the separatists ( whom are Ukraine nationals) and why he's fighting in Donbas

Read it again or i'll just clarify: you are correct in that Russia hasn't the reach or the desire to go west
in fact I dont think he even wants allof Ukraine - a rump state west of the Dnieper is fine for Putin

I was saying Ukraine could be used as a land war for invasion of Russia by the west

Putin wants to be the New Czar of Russian People. He fucked up by invading Ukraine. Now, even the Russian Speakers want Putin to LEAVE!
what?where did you get that
 
Ukraine regulars are in Donbas
= why he's backing the separatists ( whom are Ukraine nationals) and why he's fighting in Donbas

Read it again or i'll just clarify: you are correct in that Russia hasn't the reach or the desire to go west
in fact I dont think he even wants allof Ukraine - a rump state west of the Dnieper is fine for Putin

I was saying Ukraine could be used as a land war for invasion of Russia by the west

what?where did you get that


Why would ANYONE want a 'Land War' with Russia???

THIS ... is ALL ABOUT ONE PERSON ... Putin.
 
NATO was created for the express purpose of keeping a burgeoning USSR in check. Remember, numerous NATO countries have nukes as well.....kind of stupid to lessen even the most tenuous stays against a nuke exchange by anyone on the globe, n'cest pas? It ain't perfect, but let's not dissolve into anarchy because of it.

I would suggest a stronger UN, but since the US and Russia and China have a habit of ignoring that institution, my suggestion would be in vain. And the band played on.
Just ignore my post. I'm clueless on this.
 
Why would ANYONE want a 'Land War' with Russia???

THIS ... is ALL ABOUT ONE PERSON ... Putin.
Look t what was happening in Ukraine prior to the invasion by Putin

were were hyper-militarizing it, we refused to take NATO membership off the table
we overthrew a pro-Russian president by the Euromaidan

This is not to excuse Putin,but as you yourself wrote "keep poking the bear"and "the bear will swipe back"

Ukraine needs to be neutral.
Not occupied by Russia and not a pro west dagger capable of being a staging ground for NATO land forces
 
Just ignore my post. I'm clueless on this.

This man isn't:


Ukraine is an equal opportunity crisis because it provides politicians of both parties a chance to be wrong, although it allows the DEMOCRATS the opportunity to do what they do best and be much, much more wrong.

For the Republicans, it lets them indulge the desire of some to return to a time when America could focus its moral firepower – if not its firepower firepower – upon a readily-identifiable baddie like it did during the Cold War or the War on Terror.

For the left, it allows them to create a moral panic to replace COVID, which, naturally, requires that we Americans "sacrifice" even more of our freedom and money.

From the perspective of someone who actually trained Ukrainian troops in Ukraine, commanded US forces, and attended the US Army War College – though it's kind of the Chico State of war colleges – the whole way our elite is approaching the crisis is an epic clusterfark.

Don't believe anything anyone tells you – and certainly, sanity check whatever I'm telling you, too – most of these insta-experts on intra-Slavic conflict know absolutely squat-ski.

Moreover, their remarkably dumb observations and credulous acceptance of conventional wisdom, which has proven long on conventional and short on wisdom, are being presented without any kind of strategic context.

They don't know where this crisis came from and certainly have no clear notion of where they want it to go beyond the vague and unhelpful idea that they want Putin (which they use interchangeably with Russia) to "lose" without knowing what that even means.

"Putin bad" is true, but it's insufficient. It's time for some real talk about America's interests, which may not be Ukraine's interests, and how we are pursuing them.

Except no one wants to talk about that because that's not fun.

Moral panics are, and stopping for a second to think strategically spoils the party for many in both parties.

Kurt Schlichter (Twitter: @KurtSchlichter) is a name partner in a growing Los Angeles firm of trial lawyers, and a retired Army Infantry colonel with a masters in Strategic Studies from the United States Army War College.


https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/03/14/can-we-have-some-real-talk-about-ukraine
 
This man isn't:


Ukraine is an equal opportunity crisis because it provides politicians of both parties a chance to be wrong, although it allows the DEMOCRATS the opportunity to do what they do best and be much, much more wrong.

For the Republicans, it lets them indulge the desire of some to return to a time when America could focus its moral firepower – if not its firepower firepower – upon a readily-identifiable baddie like it did during the Cold War or the War on Terror.

For the left, it allows them to create a moral panic to replace COVID, which, naturally, requires that we Americans "sacrifice" even more of our freedom and money.

From the perspective of someone who actually trained Ukrainian troops in Ukraine, commanded US forces, and attended the US Army War College – though it's kind of the Chico State of war colleges – the whole way our elite is approaching the crisis is an epic clusterfark.

Don't believe anything anyone tells you – and certainly, sanity check whatever I'm telling you, too – most of these insta-experts on intra-Slavic conflict know absolutely squat-ski.

Moreover, their remarkably dumb observations and credulous acceptance of conventional wisdom, which has proven long on conventional and short on wisdom, are being presented without any kind of strategic context.

They don't know where this crisis came from and certainly have no clear notion of where they want it to go beyond the vague and unhelpful idea that they want Putin (which they use interchangeably with Russia) to "lose" without knowing what that even means.

"Putin bad" is true, but it's insufficient. It's time for some real talk about America's interests, which may not be Ukraine's interests, and how we are pursuing them.

Except no one wants to talk about that because that's not fun.

Moral panics are, and stopping for a second to think strategically spoils the party for many in both parties.

Kurt Schlichter (Twitter: @KurtSchlichter) is a name partner in a growing Los Angeles firm of trial lawyers, and a retired Army Infantry colonel with a masters in Strategic Studies from the United States Army War College.


https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/03/14/can-we-have-some-real-talk-about-ukraine
Makes sense. We do shift from one panic to the next.
 
Makes sense. We do shift from one panic to the next.
we better start shifting attention to China

Jake Sullivan had a meeting in Rome with Chinese warning them not yo 'back door' sanctions relief to Russia
He was on Laura Ingram coverage sternly warning China we "will be watching" China support
after the meeting from the podium She goes into how China is controlling Russia securely into their orbit

China issued a statement saying they reinforced the importance of "equal partnership" and mutual respect"
- basically telling Sullivan to buzz of cuz they will do as they please

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1254862.shtml
Chinese analysts said the US wants to use the Rome meeting to further pressure China to serve its sanctions against Russia, but China won't be misguided, and they slammed Washington for its arrogance in bossing other countries to unconditionally follow its strategy while showing no respect to the core interests of others.
 
I was thinking, why does the US need to be in NATO? We are the superpower. There is no benefit to us being in it that I see. The benefit is to the small countries which benefit being allied with us, the superpower.

If we were not in NATO, we could assist Ukraine in this mess. But our hands our tied because of this NATO obligation, which I see no benefit from.

NATO started after WW2 to put a wall up against potential Russian expansion. It was started in 1949. Russia has been taking over neighbors for a very long time. Their aggression is well known and repeated. Ukraine is just the latest. Russia just keeps taking over countries. The "buffer"states around them live in fear because Russia has not respected borders or other countries' rights. They have proven that over and over.
No, we could not just help them. We were not attacked. So jumping in would make it us against them. That is the basis for a horrible deadly war between nuclear powers.
 
Look t what was happening in Ukraine prior to the invasion by Putin

were were hyper-militarizing it, we refused to take NATO membership off the table
we overthrew a pro-Russian president by the Euromaidan

This is not to excuse Putin,but as you yourself wrote "keep poking the bear"and "the bear will swipe back"

Ukraine needs to be neutral.
Not occupied by Russia and not a pro west dagger capable of being a staging ground for NATO land forces

I never said that. "keep poking the bear"and "the bear will swipe back" was said by Hawkeye.

The ONLY thing 'threatening' Putin is 'Democracy' and a 'Free Speech' society. Putin is a Dictator. There's no 'Electing new blood' to guide the Country, only Putin and his Rich Friends.
If Russia ever became a Democracy, Russia could join NATO.

Russia is part of the UN and the WTO. Now look what this Clown has done.
 
1647283847445-png.950094
 
He said we never benefit from NATO. The first and I presume only time article 5 was invoked it was in our behalf.


Now if we could just invoke it for the invasion on our southern border.:thinking:
The last thing you want.
The UN is already standing ready to disarm the US.
Don't invite the cocksuckers in.
 
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