Nationwide power outages through Spain and Portugal.

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Satire for Sanity
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www.bbc.co.uk

Massive power cut in Spain and Portugal causes traffic light outages and train cancellations

Shops and restaurants in Madrid were plunged into darkness, while play at the Madrid Open is suspended.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk


In India once the traffic lights stopped working for three days- and nobody noticed.
 
I took a look at X....I dont see where the overlords have been transparent with the people as to what happened.....does anyone know?
 
The experts/officials not being forthcoming I have to go to speculation....the two most likely to be right in my opinion are:

1) The grid failed because of Spains push to use intermittent generation...perhaps because they have not invested enough into the grid to support it.

2) The grid failed because of a hole in the planets protection from the sun because the Earths magnetic field has become wobbly.

The idea that the grid failed because of a frequency variation would be explanation #1...extensive battery installations to go with the intermittent generation is a requirement.
 
Using intermittent generation makes grid management substantially more difficult, but I do need to add a #3:

3) Sloppy/Incompetent Grid Management.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Using intermittent generation makes grid management substantially more difficult, but I do need to add a #3:

3) Sloppy/Incompetent Grid Management.
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Yes. I suspect what's going to come out is that Spain suffered a major loss of wind and solar generation momentarily that led to this. Since Spain gets roughly 43% of their power via solar and wind, a combination of cloud cover and drop in wind velocity would lead to a sudden loss of generation of the two sources and what other generation sources were on line couldn't make up for the sudden loss.

Germany has been having this sort of momentary loss occur pretty regularly for years. There, businesses have UPS, back up generation, and other means to deal with these sudden, short, losses of power due to the intermittent nature of wind and solar. They've also invested hundreds of billions into a smart grid to try to mitigate the issue.

So, if Spain had a sudden, widespread, loss of wind and solar generation for just a moment, it could lead to this sort of train wreck.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Yes. I suspect what's going to come out is that Spain suffered a major loss of wind and solar generation momentarily that led to this. Since Spain gets roughly 43% of their power via solar and wind, a combination of cloud cover and drop in wind velocity would lead to a sudden loss of generation of the two sources and what other generation sources were on line couldn't make up for the sudden loss.

Germany has been having this sort of momentary loss occur pretty regularly for years. There, businesses have UPS, back up generation, and other means to deal with these sudden, short, losses of power due to the intermittent nature of wind and solar. They've also invested hundreds of billions into a smart grid to try to mitigate the issue.

So, if Spain had a sudden, widespread, loss of wind and solar generation for just a moment, it could lead to this sort of train wreck.
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But if the grid was not designed for this, or it was and it still failed....they are covering up human error....either by the elites or the operators.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
But if the grid was not designed for this, or it was and it still failed....they are covering up human error....either by the elites or the operators.
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It's really tough for any grid system to suddenly lose say 20% of its generating capacity, even for just a second or two, because what happens is the other 80% now has to take on that load instantly. This results in many of those generation systems becoming overloaded and they trip and go offline. For a large coal, natural gas, or nuclear plant, bringing the generator(s) that tripped offline back online can take hours.

If any of the switchgear failed, like fusible links blew, that sort of thing, it can be days getting everything back online.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It's really tough for any grid system to suddenly lose say 20% of its generating capacity, even for just a second or two, because what happens is the other 80% now has to take on that load instantly. This results in many of those generation systems becoming overloaded and they trip and go offline. For a large coal, natural gas, or nuclear plant, bringing the generator(s) that tripped offline back online can take hours.

If any of the switchgear failed, like fusible links blew, that sort of thing, it can be days getting everything back online.
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The batteries needed to keep the frequency regulated need to work and work right in a small fraction of a second....I was reading about this as the Tesla Batteries in Australia went online.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
The batteries needed to keep the frequency regulated need to work and work right in a small fraction of a second....I was reading about this as the Tesla Batteries in Australia went online.
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This is more basic. On large electrical grids, the sudden loss of 10 to 20% or more of your generation capacity is devastating. The remaining generation sources pick up that load. If one is running at say, 80% capacity and suddenly has to take on 25% more load, it trips offline. The effect cascades across the grid and system taking generation plant after plant off line.

An alert grid manager might call for opening breakers or disconnects for part of the grid to save it, so some local areas remain online. But these are local, while the majority of the grid goes down.
 
Loss of generation on its own does not do this....rolling blackouts preserve the grid....the system must be designed with enough battery capacity at all times to conduct rolling blackouts.

This was grid failure.
 
2 or 3 years ago Texas came within seconds of losing the grid because of human incompetence at running rolling blackouts......they upgraded staff/experts after that.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Loss of generation on its own does not do this....rolling blackouts preserve the grid....the system must be designed with enough battery capacity at all times to conduct rolling blackouts.

This was grid failure.
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Battery capacity is irrelevant to this. Putting a source on or offline takes more than a few seconds, and you haven't got it when 20% + of your generation capacity disappears. All that takes with solar and wind is some clouds and a drop in wind speed momentarily to botch everything up.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Battery capacity is irrelevant to this. Putting a source on or offline takes more than a few seconds, and you haven't got it when 20% + of your generation capacity disappears. All that takes with solar and wind is some clouds and a drop in wind speed momentarily to botch everything up.
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The system must be designed to allow rolling blackouts to be but in place no matter what happens, the grid can not fail.
 
While Portugal’s grid operator REN initially blamed the mass blackout on “extreme temperature variations” and a “rare atmospheric phenomenon,” and while some media repeated that framing, the reality is more serious. Weather may have triggered the event, but it was not the cause of the system’s collapse.
Spain’s national grid operator, Red Eléctrica, revealed that the immediate cause of the blackout was a “very strong oscillation in the electrical network” that forced Spain’s grid to disconnect from the broader European system, leading to the collapse of the Iberian Peninsula’s power supply at 12:38 p.m.“No one has ever attempted a black start on a grid that relies so heavily on renewables as Iberia,” noted
@JKempEnergy
. “The limited number of thermal generators will make it more challenging to re-establish momentum and frequency control.”In a traditional power grid dominated by heavy spinning machines — coal plants, gas turbines, nuclear reactors — small disturbances, even from severe weather, are absorbed and smoothed out by the sheer physical inertia of the system. The heavy rotating mass of the generators acts like a shock absorber, resisting rapid changes in frequency and stabilizing the grid.

But in an electricity system dominated by solar panels, wind turbines, and inverters, there is almost no physical inertia. Solar panels produce no mechanical rotation. Most modern wind turbines are electronically decoupled from the grid and provide little stabilizing force. Inverter-based systems, which dominate modern renewable energy grids, are precise but delicate. They follow the frequency of the grid rather than resisting sudden changes....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1916893955284951146
 
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