More blacks in jail than there were slaves

[SmarterthanYou]

Education is free until 18.

hey stupid. what do you think taxes pay for?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, I am advocating a policy. To advocate a policy, it is not necessary to have the majority behind you. The point of advocating a policy in a democratic republic is to get a majority behind you.

You are advocating a policy which has no chance of ever gaining a majority, and probably no chance of ever getting more than 4-5% support among the fringe loonies. As I said, people already debated these things, and they collectively decided that we would go with mandatory minimum sentences and outlawing drugs. So, what you are advocating is a Fascist policy of ramming your authoritarian socialist viewpoint down society's throat, because you're a nit wit.

Same point as above.

Same rebuttal as above... add Moron!

1984.

WTF are you talking about? We still give parole to felons! We even put that nut bag Charles Manson up for parole every few years! Most of the prisons in America are so overcrowded, they HAVE to parole people! Man, you really do live deep in a warped world of your own reality, don't you?

 

[Lowaicue]

Well free or not free it ain't working. You still have a literacy rate to be ashamed of, a knowledge of numeracy in the negative and a experience of the world less than Bush.
I would still maintain that the key to the horrendous crime figures in the US lies in education.
You are turning out dummies for whom crime is the only way to stay alive. Perhaps there is too much political correctness?
Certainly the legalising of drugs would not work. The crooks would simply find something else thst is banned and profit by its supply.
Perhaps the problem you have grown so carefully over the last couple of generations cannot be overcome. If that is the case you are in big trouble!

Education is free until 18.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Well free or not free it ain't working.

Have you ever heard the old saying of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'???

That is what we are facing in this country right now. Liberals have overrun our education system turning it in to an indoctrination system. There is no enforcement of education, meaning that if the children do not want to learn, they are not forced to. Parents are not held responsible anymore for their childrens education and no punitive actions of any sort are leveled on young people who drop out of school.

If you fail to finish highschool or choose to be a dipshit, you don't deserve to get anymore money other than what you can scrape off the sidewalks. You deserve to live a hard life because of your desire to be a lazy ass.

 

[Lowaicue]

For once I am inclined to agree with you. But you still use the word 'Liberal' in a derogatory sense when really it is a word in which the whole of humanity should revel. Freedom. liberation. Liberal.
The 1960s was the best of times and the worst of times. It opened mens minds and it stole away childhoods. the idea that a child should be accorded the same rights as an adult is a nonsense. Rights come with responsibility and at the age of 6 or 9 or 12 one can have no concept of responsibility. It was the same in the UK and now the education policy is changed with every new Education Minister. But they are getting back to a few basics and, I'm told, A Level (taken at 18) has now been toughened up and is threatening the latest trend which flew in from the continent, the IB.
I don't know much about the America system save what comes across as often humerous pieces in our newspapers. You know the sort of thing - Degrees in Elvis Presley or Ebonics or Football. We also see examples in the tourists who come here, overweight, loud and to a man, so naive they shouldn't be allowed to leave your shores because of the embarrassment they are likely to cause you.

Have you ever heard the old saying of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'???

That is what we are facing in this country right now. Liberals have overrun our education system turning it in to an indoctrination system. There is no enforcement of education, meaning that if the children do not want to learn, they are not forced to. Parents are not held responsible anymore for their childrens education and no punitive actions of any sort are leveled on young people who drop out of school.

If you fail to finish highschool or choose to be a dipshit, you don't deserve to get anymore money other than what you can scrape off the sidewalks. You deserve to live a hard life because of your desire to be a lazy ass.

 

[Topspin]

I'm not surprised a redneck racist like Dixie doesn't get it. I am kind of surprised solitary doesn't get it. Is institutional racim that complex.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Have you ever heard the old saying of 'you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink'???

That is what we are facing in this country right now. Liberals have overrun our education system turning it in to an indoctrination system. There is no enforcement of education, meaning that if the children do not want to learn, they are not forced to. Parents are not held responsible anymore for their childrens education and no punitive actions of any sort are leveled on young people who drop out of school.

If you fail to finish highschool or choose to be a dipshit, you don't deserve to get anymore money other than what you can scrape off the sidewalks. You deserve to live a hard life because of your desire to be a lazy ass.

I sure have heard of that saying but when it comes to education the saying for conservatives is "You can lead a horse to water but you can't lead a horticulture."

You're clueless about education. Because professional educators won't enforce conservatives mindless insecurity and need for absolutely rigid forms of intellectual conformity you call that indoctrination. The rest of the thinking world calls it critical thought. There's a reason why liberal arts schools provide the best education for the buck. That's because a liberal arts education requires true open mindedness, critical thinking skills and personal development. The purpose of a liberal education is to provide the individual with the intellect and the imagination for that persons own sake so that they can actually participate freely in a free society.

The purpose of conservative education is to limit a persons out look to that which is acceptable to authority, to ensure absolute conformity to that authority and to teach only the skills needed for a career condoned by that authority.

In other words liberal education is absolutely necessary for a free and working democracy where as a conservative education is antithetical to the principles of freedom, liberty and democracy.

 

[Adam Weinberg]

Drug DEALING is a crime, and unfortunately, for WHATEVER reason, more young African-Americans commit this particular crime.
Bottom line is this, as far as your "statistics" go... White people who deal drugs, have just as much of an opportunity to get arrested as blacks. As far as I know, they don't discriminate, they had just as soon arrest a white person as a black person, for selling drugs.

A Harvard study conducted in Seattle is pretty instructive on this issue. Washington state is not exactly a major hub of African American life, and yet it is a state responsible for a massive imprisonment of its black population.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/186/seattlestudy.shtml

http://www.komonews.com/news/archive/4111531.html

Excerpts:

Black Drug Dealers More Likely To Be Arrested

SEATTLE - Seattle police deny arrests are based on race, but a new study claims officers are four times more likely to arrest black dealers than whites.

"There's a lot of evidence that many whites deliver drugs but do not face any kind of risk of being arrested for doing so," said Professor Katherine Beckett.

Beckett, a University of Washington professor, analyzed Seattle Police arrest reports and polled drug users and dealers at Seattle's Needle Exchange.

Beckett determined that nearly two-thirds of those arrested for selling drugs are black. Only 19 percent are white, and other racial groups make up the rest.

Yet Beckett says the vast majority of users and dealers in Seattle are white. On Capitol Hill, they make up 95 percent of dealers.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I sure have heard of that saying but when it comes to education the saying for conservatives is "You can lead a horse to water but you can't lead a horticulture."

You're clueless about education. Because professional educators won't enforce conservatives mindless insecurity and need for absolutely rigid forms of intellectual conformity you call that indoctrination. The rest of the thinking world calls it critical thought. There's a reason why liberal arts schools provide the best education for the buck. That's because a liberal arts education requires true open mindedness, critical thinking skills and personal development. The purpose of a liberal education is to provide the individual with the intellect and the imagination for that persons own sake so that they can actually participate freely in a free society.

you sound like you're taking that a might too personally. I can tell because, yet again, all you can do is paint me with the conservative brush and then call me uneducated.

Grades K-12 should only be teaching the basic and advanced principles of academic subjects like math, english, science, history, and then provide electives like music and/or sports with appropriate grade points.

This isn't happening today because nobody wants to have their little precious snowflake feeling bad about themselves, so our society fosters incompetence by relaxing curriculum and standards.

The purpose of conservative education is to limit a persons out look to that which is acceptable to authority, to ensure absolute conformity to that authority and to teach only the skills needed for a career condoned by that authority.

while there is truth to this, it's not all you make it out to be.

In other words liberal education is absolutely necessary for a free and working democracy where as a conservative education is antithetical to the principles of freedom, liberty and democracy.

this is where you are not only wrong, but part of the cause in the detriment to our society. Liberal arts are wonderful things. I enjoyed my band/music classes as well as my extra-curricular non-academic pursuits, but anyone that pursues JUST those things thinking it's going to make them a more intelligent or educated person is just plain ignorant.

 

[Adam Weinberg]

Grades K-12 should only be teaching the basic and advanced principles of academic subjects like math, english, science, history, and then provide electives like music and/or sports with appropriate grade points.

This isn't happening today because nobody wants to have their little precious snowflake feeling bad about themselves, so our society fosters incompetence by relaxing curriculum and standards.

Not to hijack, but...

Part of the reason I think charter schools should be used more is because I don't think the schools do a good enough job of fostering the individual interests and potential of students.

I was a poor student in regular subjects (not that I was stupid, I just hated homework and my mind was usually somewhere else), but applied myself very rigorously to classes where I saw myself developing professionally, like drama, English, journalism, video production, etc. These things made the difference. Without them, it's anybody's guess how I would been motivated to graduate, complete university studies, and in a field upon which I could build a career.

A kid who goes to a school without the resources--or the encouragement--to find a niche is going to be less directed into potential careers. It encourages kids to drop out to find "opportunities" that do seem to produce incentives for them.

I know we need more engineers and doctors and teachers, and a lot of kids like myself are seemingly making us less competitive globally by wanting to do the arts instead. But the point I would make is that we aren't finding those future engineers because we're relegating them to remedial academic classes and reminding them institutionally that they aren't likely to amount to anything rather than putting them in a position to gain and develop interests that will last them a lifetime.

Someone posted somewhere a quote attributed to Kubrick where he said interest is a much more powerful force than trying to command children into learning. I think that's very true.

Let's use the stereotypical notion of a student wanting to be a rapper. I say great. Learn sound mixing. Learn music history. Learn from other vocalists. Learn media marketing. Learn business law. Learn American History. They all factor into that trade.

I know this is all simplified, but if we could change our school systems toward this kind of enrichment, I think we could be creating many more model citizens who will have productive opportunities to engage in higher education and careers.

 

[Epicurus]

Just for everyone's information, the narcotics units of police departments do have a great deal of discretion to simply "pick and choose" their targets as far as drug dealers are concerned. Because of their intelligence gathering, they are aware of many more dealers than they arrest. Typically those who might flip, or those who are the most dangerous are arrested, but it's doubtless that racism plays into this as well, particularly in the Deep South.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.27]

USA primary and secondary education are poor. USA citizens are convinced of rights so much they fail to learn from masters.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Not to hijack, but...

Part of the reason I think charter schools should be used more is because I don't think the schools do a good enough job of fostering the individual interests and potential of students.

I was a poor student in regular subjects (not that I was stupid, I just hated homework and my mind was usually somewhere else), but applied myself very rigorously to classes where I saw myself developing professionally, like drama, English, journalism, video production, etc. These things made the difference. Without them, it's anybody's guess how I would been motivated to graduate, complete university studies, and in a field upon which I could build a career.

A kid who goes to a school without the resources--or the encouragement--to find a niche is going to be less directed into potential careers. It encourages kids to drop out to find "opportunities" that do seem to produce incentives for them.

I know we need more engineers and doctors and teachers, and a lot of kids like myself are seemingly making us less competitive globally by wanting to do the arts instead. But the point I would make is that we aren't finding those future engineers because we're relegating them to remedial academic classes and reminding them institutionally that they aren't likely to amount to anything rather than putting them in a position to gain and develop interests that will last them a lifetime.

Someone posted somewhere a quote attributed to Kubrick where he said interest is a much more powerful force than trying to command children into learning. I think that's very true.

Let's use the stereotypical notion of a student wanting to be a rapper. I say great. Learn sound mixing. Learn music history. Learn from other vocalists. Learn media marketing. Learn business law. Learn American History. They all factor into that trade.

I know this is all simplified, but if we could change our school systems toward this kind of enrichment, I think we could be creating many more model citizens who will have productive opportunities to engage in higher education and careers.

I think you both sort of miss the point of the value of a liberal education. It is not to give some kid a warm fuzzy about self validation. That's just right wing propaganda bullshit. But neither is a liberal education to be solely about skills training. A "career" education only is a deficient education.

A liberal education is as much about personal development as it is about learning skill sets. Without a well rounded education in the liberal studies like the arts, sciences, humanities, literature, mathematics, social sciences, then one does not gain the personal development to truely gain a free exercise of ones liberties in a modern society. It is this respect contextually that a liberal education is vastly superior to a conservative education. A conservative education is so self limiting in personal development and lacking in context that in a free society it would and is difficult for those with a conservative education to not only complete with those whom have a liberal education but to enjoy the fruits and benefits of living in a free society.

That is also why there are so very few institutions of conservative education around. A liberal education is so manifestly superior to a conservative one that the vast majority of people wisely eschew them.

 

[Cancel4]

President Obama believes that our kids and our country can’t afford four more years of neglect and indifference. At this defining moment in our history, America faces few more urgent challenges than preparing our children to compete in a global economy.

The decisions our leaders make about education in the coming years will shape our future for generations to come. President Obama is committed to meeting this challenge with leadership and judgment that has been sorely lacking for the last eight years.

President Obama's vision for a 21st century education begins with demanding more reform and accountability, coupled with the resources needed to carry out that reform; asking parents to take responsibility for their children’s success; and recruiting, retaining, and rewarding an army of new teachers to fill new successful schools that prepare our children for success in college and the workforce.

The Obama plan will restore the promise of America’s public education, and ensure that American children again lead the world in achievement, creativity and success.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I think you both sort of miss the point of the value of a liberal education. It is not to give some kid a warm fuzzy about self validation. That's just right wing propaganda bullshit. But neither is a liberal education to be solely about skills training. A "career" education only is a deficient education.

A liberal education is as much about personal development as it is about learning skill sets. Without a well rounded education in the liberal studies like the arts, sciences, humanities, literature, mathematics, social sciences, then one does not gain the personal development to truely gain a free exercise of ones liberties in a modern society. It is this respect contextually that a liberal education is vastly superior to a conservative education. A conservative education is so self limiting in personal development and lacking in context that in a free society it would and is difficult for those with a conservative education to not only complete with those whom have a liberal education but to enjoy the fruits and benefits of living in a free society.

That is also why there are so very few institutions of conservative education around. A liberal education is so manifestly superior to a conservative one that the vast majority of people wisely eschew them.

are you really that comfortable in spewing that propagandic bullshit?

 

[Canceled2]

Just for everyone's information, the narcotics units of police departments do have a great deal of discretion to simply "pick and choose" their targets as far as drug dealers are concerned. Because of their intelligence gathering, they are aware of many more dealers than they arrest. Typically those who might flip, or those who are the most dangerous are arrested, but it's doubtless that racism plays into this as well, particularly in the Deep South.

Another misnomer with regards to the article that was posted about a Seattle study; you cannot lump dealers and users together as a statistic, nor can you lump type of drug use together as if smoking or dealing pot and smoking or dealing crack are the same.

Another part of the cuture with regards to the arrest of black youth is gang activity. Sentencing and arrests for members of known gangs is higher than those users and dealers not associated with gangs.

Statistics are useless for any real understanding that will lead to positive actions unless the various apsects of the whole picture are looked at.

 

[Cancel4]

President Obama will ban racial profiling by federal law enforcement agencies and provide federal incentives to state and local police departments to prohibit the practice.

President Obama will provide job training, substance abuse and mental health counseling to ex-offenders, so that they are successfully re-integrated into society. Obama will also create a prison-to-work incentive program to improve ex-offender employment and job retention rates.

President Obama believes the disparity between sentencing crack and powder-based cocaine is wrong and should be completely eliminated.

President Obama will give first-time, non-violent offenders a chance to serve their sentence, where appropriate, in the type of drug rehabilitation programs that have proven to work better than a prison term in changing bad behavior.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

You are advocating a policy which has no chance of ever gaining a majority, and probably no chance of ever getting more than 4-5% support among the fringe loonies. As I said, people already debated these things, and they collectively decided that we would go with mandatory minimum sentences and outlawing drugs.

Legalizing marijunia is supported by about 35% of the American public, and support for it has been growing every year since the gallup organization has been polling the question. I'm not sure about the support for changing the sentencing system away from mandatory minimums, but it's also far greater than 4%-5%. They are essentially as popular as intelligent design, except their numbers are growing and not shrinking.

So, what you are advocating is a Fascist policy of ramming your authoritarian socialist viewpoint down society's throat, because you're a nit wit.

No. This doesn't even logically follow.

WTF are you talking about? We still give parole to felons!

Some states still have parole. Federal parole was abolished in 1984.

We even put that nut bag Charles Manson up for parole every few years!

Charles Manson was sentenced before LWOP came into effect. His sentence is effectively LWOP because no governor is honestly ever going to consider signing the parole form.

Most of the prisons in America are so overcrowded, they HAVE to parole people! Man, you really do live deep in a warped world of your own reality, don't you?

Yeah, it's called the real world dixie. Get with it.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

hey stupid. what do you think taxes pay for?

*sigh*

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Well free or not free it ain't working. You still have a literacy rate to be ashamed of, a knowledge of numeracy in the negative and a experience of the world less than Bush.
I would still maintain that the key to the horrendous crime figures in the US lies in education.

I'd say its our violent culture. And the US has actually been closing in on the other nations over the past few years on crimes besides murder.

You are turning out dummies for whom crime is the only way to stay alive. Perhaps there is too much political correctness?

I stay alive by working at Popeye's. I do realize our educational system is horrible, but you can't lay it all on that.

Certainly the legalising of drugs would not work. The crooks would simply find something else thst is banned and profit by its supply.

Good luck finding something that is even an inkling as profitable. Just like alcohol prohibition fed the massive crime rates in the 30's, marijuana prohibition is feeding the lower crime rates now adays. You are vastly shrinking their market by legalizing and controlling the supply. It would have a significant impact.

Perhaps the problem you have grown so carefully over the last couple of generations cannot be overcome. If that is the case you are in big trouble!

OK.