Morality without God

patriot66 said:
Since God is the Creator, morality could only come from him no matter when it started.
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Then you are faced with the same question pmp ran away from.

So God puts morality into bonobos and capuchin monkeys? Do they have souls?

Why do we need to the supposed word of God delivered and possibly corrupted by man to tell us what is moral if he fills us with this knowledge?
 
patriot66 said:
Before the BIBLE? DUH much?
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Oh, I see. So it was a race between two pieces of fiction. Well I'm glad your fiction won over my fiction, you must feel really good.
I've just seen you suggest that you are a 'born again'. Jeezzusss, do they really exist? Free? Not institutionalised? 'Stupider and stupider' as Alice did not quite say. Now she was real!
So the original faith system started by the followers of jesus was not bloody good enough for you? Wow, you must be one genius son of a bitch. LOL. Yanks! You couldn't make this shit up!
 
Lowaicue said:
Whereas you think nothing of killing thousands of your own troops and tens of thousands of innocent foreigners just because you leader lied to you. Come to think of it, your whole life has been at the mercy of liars and you STILL dont get it.
Each of those troops and civilians was a sentient being with emotions and feelings. They could feel the pain that killed them. Given the choice (horrible choice of course) most people would opt for the foetus, certainly in the first few weeks. It is not sentient. It feels no pain. (Please dont argue that point because it is fact, not belief)
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Please tell me how we went from the moral depth of liberals to something else? Do you not have anything cogent to add to your defense of selective murder? If you don't, then just admit that you're a know-nothing blowhard, and let us know that you'd like to talk about something else.
 
evince said:
are you really so brainwashed that you think republican women never get abortions?
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Are you stupid enough to believe that your feeble misdirection will take me away from my point on this subject? Digsby is the jerk who is parading your high sense of superiorority. If you don't like hearing my take on this bullshit, then advise the buffoon to watch what he types.
 
Granule said:
Your Brother's Grimm tie-in was pretty stupid, Lowa. Stay away from humor.... it escapes you.
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No more than any discussion in support of the bible or any other work of fiction. Americans are known around the globe for their lack of humour and those who do, by some natural evolution of genes, have some sense of humour have absolutely no understanding at all of British/Australian humour, they can't even spell the word correctly. You are hardly in a position to make the point to me.
 
Man's natural morality gave birth to religion. Not the other way round.
Indeed it can be well argued that man's morality has been forever tainted by the religion he invented to subdue the week of mind and body. Get rid of this silly, unnatural faithist stuff and lets see some real human progress.
I am not a nice person because I wish to go to heaven or I am afraid of going to hell. I'm a nice person because I have no choice as it is the only way to survive as a species.
 
Lowaicue said:
I am not a nice person because I wish to go to heaven or I am afraid of going to hell. I'm a nice person because I have no choice as it is the only way to survive as a species.
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And in this lies the difference. When you, by your own reckoning, do not have survival as a factor, you have no more reason to remain a nice person. People who believe in a higher power have reason to remain a nice person regardless of circumstances.
 
Independent said:
And in this lies the difference. When you, by your own reckoning, do not have survival as a factor, you have no more reason to remain a nice person. People who believe in a higher power have reason to remain a nice person regardless of circumstances.
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I am a nice person, not out of fear of being punished by God nor out of fear of not surviving. I am a nice person because it is the right thing to do.
 
WinterBorn said:
I am a nice person, not out of fear of being punished by God nor out of fear of not surviving. I am a nice person because it is the right thing to do.
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What makes it the right thing to do and why should anyone else believe that it is the right thing to do simply because you say so?
 
Independent said:
What makes it the right thing to do and why should anyone else believe that it is the right thing to do simply because you say so?
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But if he writes it down in a book and many years pass it becomes authoritative?

Morality can be tested with logical inferences and in practice.

Religious sheep need some guarantee, a herd that agrees with them, have a deep seated need to conform and are afraid to act on their own.

Certainly, others may disagree with his morality and he can adjust it or just disagree. But if he believes that it is unchanging and absolute, as the faithful do, then he has to kill them or at the very least chastize them as evil and believe that his shepherd will deal with them.
 
Granule said:
Are you stupid enough to believe that your feeble misdirection will take me away from my point on this subject? Digsby is the jerk who is parading your high sense of superiorority. If you don't like hearing my take on this bullshit, then advise the buffoon to watch what he types.
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Wait for it... wait for it...

Fuck you!
 
Granule said:
Are you stupid enough to believe that your feeble misdirection will take me away from my point on this subject? Digsby is the jerk who is parading your high sense of superiorority. If you don't like hearing my take on this bullshit, then advise the buffoon to watch what he types.
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Misdirection is exactly what you were attempting because you are apparently too much of a coward to engage the topic. This has nothing to do with abortion or the idea that Democrats/liberals are more moral than Republicans/conservatives and nothing you said follows.
 
Independent said:
And in this lies the difference. When you, by your own reckoning, do not have survival as a factor, you have no more reason to remain a nice person. People who believe in a higher power have reason to remain a nice person regardless of circumstances.
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You mean like the faithists on this forum?
 
Lowaicue said:
You mean like the faithists on this forum?
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Those that are "faithist" are human and fail. The difference is that they have the incentive to continue looking in the direction of "nice" even when they fail. Those who make their own morals can simply decide that nice is now not really a moral objective.
 
WinterBorn said:
I am a nice person, not out of fear of being punished by God nor out of fear of not surviving. I am a nice person because it is the right thing to do.
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So you think you were just born that way.....your rearing and environment and parental guidance or lack of it had was of no consequence....?
 
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