Mindless Partisanship

cawacko said:
Is ironic that you titled your subject Partisanship and then made a partisan point yourself?


I offer you a post from Cypress in 2007 on trade on a thread about U.S. losing jobs to China.

"""You think this was an accident, or somehow all unintentional?

This was exactly what the wall street republicans, and corporate-sponsored Dems had in mind when the passed NAFTA, WTO, and China MFN.

A downward pressure on labor costs and wages in the United States.

People like Cawacko, Damocles, and Stuperfreak actually bought into the nonsense that William F Buckley, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and Alan Greenspan were actually valiantly trying to improve the status, power, and wage potential of america's working middle class. Is it possible to be any more foolish that to believe scions of the conservative movement and america's rich investor were invested in improving the power and status of Joe and Jane working class american?"""


https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...t-2-3-million-U-S-jobs-report&highlight=china



And how do you explain the Bernie phenomenon which was all about anti-free trade and our trade deals being bad? And Hillary feeling the need to turn against TPP which she worked on to create?
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It's a little creepy that you are researching and saving posts I wrote over a decade ago.

And it is beyond creepy that you continue to attempt to hold me out as a prime example of "hypocrisy" on trade, when I have told you repeatedly you are lying your ass off about me. My position on trade has been consistent.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...America-more-than-China&p=2737463#post2737463
 
Cypress said:
It's a little creepy that you are researching and saving posts I wrote over a decade ago.

And it is beyond creepy that you continue to attempt to hold me out as a prime example of "hypocrisy" on trade, when I have told you repeatedly you are lying your ass off about me. My position on trade has been consistent.
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...America-more-than-China&p=2737463#post2737463
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I never said you were a hypocrite on trade. I use your post as an example of progressive feelings toward trade. Not saying you speak for all progressives but your position is not an outlier among progressives. (and I didn't save the post, they have a search button on here)
 
OMG!
I see you are easily triggered, I've contacted Oneuli, she said she has some Hot Cocoa and a Safe Place for you. She says she feels she at least owes you that for showing up. You've done good, TD. Not many would volunteer to be the Poster Child of 'Mindless Partisan'.
 
Hey! Good News!
1. Oneuli just emailed me and she says she has some Play Doh for you, that's always a Favorite.
2. She also said, and this is usually against the Rules, but she said you could bring your boyfriend Guille with you to hold your hand.


:thumbsup:
 
Jack said:
Hey! Good News!
1. Oneuli just emailed me and she says she has some Play Doh for you, that's always a Favorite.
2. She also said, and this is usually against the Rules, but she said you could bring your boyfriend Guille with you to hold your hand.


:thumbsup:
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I got called a member of the alt right by jimmymcready for blocking people on posts I start. This is exactly why I do it. Potential decent discussions just turn to sh*t.
 
cawacko said:
I got called a member of the alt right by jimmymcready for blocking people on posts I start. This is exactly why I do it. Potential decent discussions just turn to sh*t.
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It makes sense. If you're trying to actually have a conversation with others about a timely or interesting topic, you don't want the asinine to disrupt the whole flow of conversation with the name calling and silliness. I think Oneuli made her point, many here are just partisan hacks regurgitating the Party Line.

You've always seemed a little more serious and rational with your Postings. I hope you never go 'Legina' with your bannings and end up with 50 people on your Ban List. :)

I hope TD doesn't get too wound up and he realizes I'm just teasing him in a 'playful' way. A lot of this is just playful banter to amuse each other, no harm intended. I'll log off now.
 
cawacko said:
I never said you were a hypocrite on trade. I use your post as an example of progressive feelings toward trade. Not saying you speak for all progressives but your position is not an outlier among progressives. (and I didn't save the post, they have a search button on here)
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Okay, that's fine. But if you want to make liberal hypocrisy on Trade a topic, please leave my name out of it.

I have been reasonably consistent....and I stand with Sherrod Brown on fair trade. Workers unite, comrade!
 
Oneuli said:
One way to figure out whether someone's policy preferences are based on considered principles, or if they're just a symptom of partisan loyalty, is to see if those preferences swing with the partisan winds.

So, what about Republicans in general -- are they principled citizens whose agendas have been developed over a long period of thinking through the facts? Or are they gullible dupes who just embrace whatever position their favorite propagandists are pushing at the moment? And how about Democrats?

Here's a telling set of graphs:

FT_18.05.10_trade-tariffs_positive_views.png


As you can see, among those who lean Democrat, there's been a gradual evolution of opinion regarding free trade deals. Back in 2009, most people on that end of the spectrum thought free trade agreements tend to be a good thing for the US. Gradually, over the following years, that majority grew. But there were no sudden reversals.

The real action is on the Republican side. At first, Republicans thought free trade agreements have generally been a good thing for the US -- around 57% in 2009. Then Obama signed three trade deals, with South Korea, Panama, and Columbia, and pushed for a few others. Immediately, a slight majority of Republicans thought free trade agreements have generally been bad for the US. Then, over the next few years, Republican sentiment return to its historically pro-free-trade position.... until Trump became the leading Republican figure and took the opposite position, with most right-wing propaganda outlets taking their cues from him.

At that point, the Republicans moved dramatically against free trade. By the start of 2017, only 29% of Republicans thought free trade agreements have tended to be good for the US -- down from a majority just three years earlier. But then Trump started negotiating trade deals himself, culminating in signing a deal with Canada and Mexico. Republican opinion about trade deals obediently improved -- moving 14 points and it's now closing in on being a majority again.

That's not to say the Democrats are totally free of the partisan impulse on the topic. Maybe somewhere on that Democratic graph is a little hiccup that could be attributed to a politician they like or dislike having taken a particular position. But it's nothing like the crazed swings among the Republicans, most of whom seem completely untethered to any principle other than liking the Republican leadership and disliking the Democratic leadership.
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note the years of this chart


these huge swings are due to Fox "news" coverage of the Issues


these people are edged along on what they believe


they are the idiot rabble of this nation


the ones who can be fooled all of the time
 
Cypress said:
Okay, that's fine. But if you want to make liberal hypocrisy on Trade a topic, please leave my name out of it.

I have been reasonably consistent....and I stand with Sherrod Brown on fair trade. Workers unite, comrade!
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I'm not speaking about liberal hypocrisy I'm saying her argument that the majority of liberals have supported free trade over the years isn't an accurate one. It may be moving that way with more people today but it's not an historical position
 
Oneuli said:
Look at the graphs, though. The majority of Democrats were pro-free-trade the whole way through. It just strengthened gradually over time. The Republicans, meanwhile, bounced violently down, then up, then down, then up again. If that's about "more awareness" I think it's awareness of what the leaders of each party were doing. When, in 2009, McCain was more pro-free-trade than Obama, Republicans as a whole were very pro-free-trade. When Obama started successfully pushing through big new trade deals, they became anti-free trade. Then when Romney was running as a free-trade advocate, they were free trade again. Then when Trump launched his isolationist run, they became wildly anti-free trade. Then when he started negotiating trade deals, they drifted back towards neutrality.
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2009 was not the beginning of time. Go back and look at the rest of history. You hear that giant sucking sound?
 
tinfoil said:
2009 was not the beginning of time. Go back and look at the rest of history. You hear that giant sucking sound?
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why?


that party is dead

It died from the orange chemotherapy


the cancer you were trying to kill ended the patients life dude


all you have left is the trumpy


the toxic orange trumpy is all that is left of the republican party
 
tinfoil said:
LOL
Using the search feature is creepy? You are funny
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and he has always said that basically


he is not the democratic party


It was the Democratic party they measured not cypress's opinion.



so why are you and wack pretending Cy is the entire Democratic party?
 
evince said:
and he has always said that basically


he is not the democratic party


It was the Democratic party they measured not cypress's opinion.



so why are you and wack pretending Cy is the entire Democratic party?
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I think you have me confused with another poster. Go read the post again and discover who you should be addressing.

I simply laughed at the assertion that digging up old quotes was "creepy".

LOL made me laugh again
 
tinfoil said:
I think you have me confused with another poster. Go read the post again and discover who you should be addressing.

I simply laughed at the assertion that digging up old quotes was "creepy".

LOL made me laugh again
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LOL!! Not to mention I clearly said he doesn't speak for the entire party but then again to ask Desh to both read and comprehend what she's reading is asking a lot. Ask Desh, she'll tell you she does speak for the whole party. Hahaha
 
tinfoil said:
2009 was not the beginning of time. Go back and look at the rest of history. You hear that giant sucking sound?
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If you have graphs going back in time before 2009, I'd love to see them. My prediction is that we won't find the sudden violent moves among Democrats as we see among Republicans from 2009 to the present.
 
Oneuli said:
The point of this thread isn't to argue whether China's well-behaved or NAFTA can be improved. The point is to contrast each side's reaction to the issue as a whole. China didn't suddenly become much worse shortly after Obama took office, then improve, then get vastly worse in 2015 through 2017, then get better again. NAFTA's terms didn't get overhauled in huge ways that made it much worse, then better, then worse, then better again. The violent swings of Republican opinion are not the slow evolution of someone gradually adjusting his opinions to new data (that's what the Democratic graph looks like). Instead, the Republican graph is what it looks like when you have people with no principles operating on very low information, such that they just spasm in whatever direction they've been triggered by their handlers.
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nah. you're off.
 
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