McCain has two choices on Trump-Russian collusion: provide evidence or retract

Nomad said:
When is Comrade Dumpsky going to retract his accusation about Obama wiretapping his phones?
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Never.....why should he? Does the left no longer hold an accusation as enough evidence to launch an investigation? If not why does the entire Russian incident require investigation in relation to a Trump collusion as there has been no evidence after a year plus of investigation, yet that does not stop the left from demanding an investigation. FYI: The president does not have to testify to anything that is "classified"....unless he is subject to a subpoena that is authorized and then the testimony can be heard only by those who have the security clearance....plus there's that entire AUTHORIZED INVESTIGATION thingy that is required before any subpoena can by authorized.

Again...the press and the dimwits have the mule attempting to push the plow. Let them launch an investigation..Subpoena the witness to a tweeter message, and appoint a special prosecutor, IF THEY WANT THE INFORMATION demanded. Laugh My Ass Off. Trump can tell them to kiss his ass and nothing will come of it....except more left wing bitching and propaganda. There is a RULE OF LAW to this madness. Follow it...as the president suggested. :)

Where do you find the requirement in the Constitution or Federal law that demands anyone to "rescind" a personal opinion protected under the guarantee of Freedom of Speech? The press does it all the time. Again...the proper response should be "Go to hell...if you want the evidential information.....subpoena it, as its classified in nature.

But....if he wishes, he can at his will....declassify anything he wishes. Now the teaser....will he reveal his source or not? What's to protect....Obama dropped he ball and allowed the entire CIA system to be hacked on his watch. Just open up the entire system to the press....and let some heads roll.
 
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Bill said:
You going to try & scape goat Obama & hillary?? Get off that dude.......... What you project & hypothesize "they may have done" is just that-NOTHING MORE!!
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if you can't see the results of 8 years of Obama's inability to even talk to Putin-coupled with Obama's withdrawal from US power projection has enabled and encouraged Putin to make wide gains on the world stage..you must not be paying attention.
Why is this important? (rhetorical)
Because if you don't understand the current dynamics-and to do that you need to understand how we got here -you can't see how to influene them going forward.


We are talking about what the dirty has done, what he is trying to do, what the Russians have done & the direction he is heading the country/world...
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yep

& pls, stop trying to compare an rapprochement/getting along w/ the Russians as tantamount to being their bitch & be ruled over by the man they worked to help get elected.........
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rapproachment is an instrument of realpolitik. My opinion is what we are doing is NOT working to check Putin.
One way to improve our policy is not to mindlessly engage in tit for tat Cold War.
It's distractive to the other more important engagements we need to do with our allies to counter Putin's gains.
Everybody is pissed off @ Putin and escalation feels good -but accomplishes nothing to advance US interets

In the least they have interfered in our elections, & in the worst?? Who knows given what we know of the contacts etc so far, that said, rewarding them w/ some kinda easing or "betterment/upgrade" seems asinine @ this time, premature in the least......
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no need to reward. In fact we should be talking behind the scenes and laying down some gound rules for upcoming elections worldwide.
But to do that you need leverage against putin..sanctions have played out. military escalations are not inhibitive.
what is needed is some prosecution of US interests-Putin is undercutting our abilities to influence events/alliances

Lets see what happened, what plays out, let some water flow under the bridge before the dear, & most certainly unqualified actor & so called president to make that decision........
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the water has been flowing and the tide has been running out.. Time to reverse that tide that Obama and by extension Clinton have wrought
 
Foreign Affairs: Lights Out for the Putin Regime
The Coming Russian Collapse

Russian President Vladimir Putin used to seem invincible. Today, he and his regime look enervated, confused, and desperate. Increasingly, both Russian and Western commentators suggest that Russia may be on the verge of deep instability, possibly even collapse.

This perceptual shift is unsurprising. Last year, Russia was basking in the glow of its annexation of Crimea and aggression in the Donbas. The economy, although stagnant, seemed stable. Putin was running circles around Western policymakers and domestic critics. His popularity was sky-high. Now it is only his popularity that remains; everything else has turned for the worse. Crimea and the Donbas are economic hellholes and huge drains on Russian resources. The war with Ukraine has stalemated. Energy prices are collapsing, and the Russian economy is in recession. Putin’s punitive economic measures against Ukraine, Turkey, and the West have only harmed the Russian economy further. Meanwhile, the country’s intervention in Syria is poised to become a quagmire. **

Things are probably *much worse for Russia than this cursory survey of negative trends suggests. The country is weathering three crises brought about by Putin’s rule—and Russia’s foreign-policy misadventures in Ukraine and Syria are only exacerbating them.

First, the Russian economy is in free fall. That oil and gas prices are unlikely to rise much anytime soon is bad enough. Far worse, Russia’s energy-dependent economy is unreformed, uncompetitive, and un-modernized and will remain so as long as it serves as a wealth-producing machine for Russia’s political elite. Second, Putin’s political system is disintegrating. His brand of authoritarian centralization was supposed to create a strong “power vertical” that would bring order to the administrative apparatus, rid it of corruption, and subordinate regional Russian and non-Russian elites to Moscow’s will. Instead, over-centralization has produced the opposite effect, fragmenting the bureaucracy, encouraging bureaucrats to pursue their own interests, and enabling regional elites to become increasingly insubordinate—with Ramzan Kadyrov, Putin’s strongman in Chechnya, being the prime example.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2016-01-27/lights-out-putin-regime

Russia’s Great Shift Downward
Putin has shown little interest in changing the economic model.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-28/russia-s-economy-faces-long-term-decline
 
Russia Economic Outlook
http://www.focus-economics.com/countries/russia
March 7, 2017
Preliminary data suggest that the Russian economy absorbed the dual shocks of lower oil prices and the continuation of Western sanctions last year with fortitude, contracting just 0.2% in 2016. A tighter fiscal and monetary policy and a flexible exchange rate ensured the smaller-than-expected economic contraction. There are further indications that the nascent economic turnaround in the final quarter of 2016 continued at the beginning of this year, as industrial production expanded in January and the manufacturing and services PMIs continued to indicate an expansion in the sectors. At a NATO conference in Munich on 18 February, Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov announced Russia’s agreement for a fresh ceasefire in the conflict in the Donbass region. That said, on the same day, the Kremlin announced that Russia will recognize travel and other documents issued by separatist groups in the eastern areas of Ukraine. Although Lavrov’s announcement was welcomed, Russia’s recognition of such documents was condemned by Western powers.
 
Darth Omar said:
Assuming he does, didn't the left and Russia have a torrid love affair for several decades lol?
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If you'd like to be specific we can speak about each decade since the Romanov slayings. If you are simply making a snarky comment about the red scare I will say that there was of course a real communist international conspiracy headed by Moscow yet many well intentioned patriotic Americans swept up in a wide net by the right. If this love affair is recent memory from detente, glasnost etc., well the left was correct as the warming relations did reflect a real liberalizing of the USSR. Cf the current love affair by right wingers most certainly does not reflect a liberalizing of Russia, rather dovetails with a hardened dictatorship under cult personality Putin.

That's why liberals over time aren't susceptible to the ridicule for hypocrisy that rightees are. There is a rational ethical and geopolotical basis not to be soft on Russia presently, but the supposedly hawkish right loves a commie thugocracy ONLY because Trump seems to. They are idiots, lead by an idiot. So, there's your answer.
 
Micawber said:
If you'd like to be specific we can speak about each decade since the Romanov slayings. If you are simply making a snarky comment about the red scare I will say that there was of course a real communist international conspiracy headed by Moscow yet many well intentioned patriotic Americans swept up in a wide net by the right. If this love affair is recent memory from detente, glasnost etc., well the left was correct as the warming relations did reflect a real liberalizing of the USSR. Cf the current love affair by right wingers most certainly does not reflect a liberalizing of Russia, rather dovetails with a hardened dictatorship under cult personality Putin.

That's why liberals over time aren't susceptible to the ridicule for hypocrisy that rightees are. There is a rational ethical and geopolotical basis not to be soft on Russia presently, but the supposedly hawkish right loves a commie thugocracy ONLY because Trump seems to. They are idiots, lead by an idiot. So, there's your answer.
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ridiculous. Hawking Russia doesn't change Putin's plans/objectives behaviors.
He's way past the west in the middle east - because of a feckless Obama indifference to the Sunni states.
He's aligning more and more both economically and militarily with China.

The way to undermine Putin is NOT more Cold War 2.0. Recall he annexed Crimea without a shot.

The best way to counter Putin's ambitions with our own alliances; if you look at Libya Russia is making inroads there too https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...-to-deploy-forces-in-Egypt-eyes-on-Libya-role

Putting more money and manpower into confronting Putin in Europe is a fools game
 
anatta said:
you sound like McCain's "Russia is a glorified gas station"..it is..but it's not staying that way.
It's trying to diversify, it's exporting worldwide,making alliances worldwide- and once the Ukrainian sanctions come off -and they inevitably will- it willbe able to start trading again with Europe as well as existing trade with China.
Your premise is outdated

Russia's Economy Goes Out With A 'Bang'
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/26/russia-2016-economy-rosneft-putin/#24af2afd6dc7
Next year is shaping up to be a much better one for the Russian Federation. Following back-to-back years of economic recession and much of the Western world putting its leader, Vladimir Putin, in the dog house because of his actions in Ukraine and his support for Bashar Assad in Syria, Russia is ready to make a comeback. This might not be entirely translatable in its stock market however, which is already up over 40% year-to-date.

On Monday, the Russian Ministry of Economic Development revised its outlook for industrial production in 2016 to 1% compared to the previous 0.4%. In November, national statistics firm Rosstat said industrial production in the first 11 months of 2016 rose 0.8% from 2015 and 2.7% compared to the same month a year ago. IP also rose around 1% from October levels.

Russia's Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said in the local press today that the economy could surprise next year by accelerating growth to 1.5%. It's not blockbuster by any measures, but after negative three percent growth over the last two years, it is at least a move in the right direction for once.
++

now look at it's weapons modernization -up to par at least with most of NATO's
now look at it's expanding commercial ties worldwide

ignorance. Russia will become the dominate power in Libya, as well as economic partnership with Egypt.
It's on the ascention by every metric. Economic/"spheres" of influence/military/diplomatic
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Russia is starving from low oil prices idiot.
 
Micawber said:
If you'd like to be specific we can speak about each decade since the Romanov slayings. If you are simply making a snarky comment about the red scare I will say that there was of course a real communist international conspiracy headed by Moscow yet many well intentioned patriotic Americans swept up in a wide net by the right. If this love affair is recent memory from detente, glasnost etc., well the left was correct as the warming relations did reflect a real liberalizing of the USSR. Cf the current love affair by right wingers most certainly does not reflect a liberalizing of Russia, rather dovetails with a hardened dictatorship under cult personality Putin.

That's why liberals over time aren't susceptible to the ridicule for hypocrisy that rightees are. There is a rational ethical and geopolotical basis not to be soft on Russia presently, but the supposedly hawkish right loves a commie thugocracy ONLY because Trump seems to. They are idiots, lead by an idiot. So, there's your answer.
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Were you alive during the Reagan years lol?
 
Bill said:
According to you....... Until the so called got elected none of you ppl ever said any of this trash............. :palm:

We so badly need a reset because, well, ahhh, well, the apprentice said so, :dunno: BULL SHIT!!!!!

Making excuses for what has happened & what continues to come out is simply shameful-MCCAIN IS SIMPLY CORRECT and most of you know it~thus you have no alternative but to try & discredit him.. FUCKING SAD!!!
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^ They're focusing on McCain and ignoring all the other repubs criticizing trump. Lindsey Graham is calling for trump to prove his wiretap claims but cons have ignored him in order to pile on McCain.
 
christiefan915 said:
^ They're focusing on McCain and ignoring all the other repubs criticizing trump. Lindsey Graham is calling for trump to prove his wiretap claims but cons have ignored him in order to pile on McCain.
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McCain and Graham are the Bobbsey Twins of Russiaphobia.
There is never any daylight between them regarding Russia - you speak of one,and you can assume the other
 
christiefan915 said:
^ They're focusing on McCain and ignoring all the other repubs criticizing trump. Lindsey Graham is calling for trump to prove his wiretap claims but cons have ignored him in order to pile on McCain.
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Thanks for bringing that up.

When is the liberal/media complex going to prove or retract the Trump-Russian theory?

Never, ever.

Why the double standard when it comes to Trump?
 
christiefan915 said:
^ They're focusing on McCain and ignoring all the other repubs criticizing trump. Lindsey Graham is calling for trump to prove his wiretap claims but cons have ignored him in order to pile on McCain.
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Yep, trying to make him the shiny object in the corner...........lol

Obviously they will attack anyone & spin anything in support of their dear leader... A few months ago most of them were pretty much hostile to Russia, especially after the Ukraine deal...
 
Bill said:
Yep, trying to make him the shiny object in the corner...........lol

Obviously they will attack anyone & spin anything in support of their dear leader... A few months ago most of them were pretty much hostile to Russia, especially after the Ukraine deal...
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a few months ago McCain was a crazy old man hostile to Obama also..I don't recall any love affair from the Dems back then for McCain
 
anatta said:
McCain and Graham are the Bobbsey Twins of Russiaphobia.
There is never any daylight between them regarding Russia - you speak of one,and you can assume the other
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Yea, those two & others certainly couldn't have concerns about a (so called) president whose campaign had multiple contacts w/ the Russians (hidden & lied about), who just so happens interred in our elections.........:rolleyes:

They & others are the bad guys for daring to question, trying to find out exactly what happened etc.........:palm:
 
Bill said:
Yea, those two & others certainly couldn't have concerns about a (so called) president whose campaign had multiple contacts w/ the Russians (hidden & lied about), who just so happens interred in our elections.........:rolleyes:

They & others are the bad guys for daring to question, trying to find out exactly what happened etc.........:palm:
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we have all kinds of investigations going on. Meanwhile McCain is saying hacking was "an act of war"
(like we are above reproach?)

And Graham wants to "throw stones at Russia" -do these sound like considered well thought out options?
Or are they typical of McCain and Grahams "Russia *grr grr* " mindsets?

anyways...
if you want to read some really good fair and balanced view of US /Russian relations -look at this thread Althea showed me. I think it's pretty good.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?78707-From-cold-war-to-hot-war
From Cold War to Hot War.
 
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