Map of the effects of Islam on women and gay rights

anatta said:
Let countries determine their governing, Sharia or not. What do you want to do - invade Saudi arabia?

China has a far worse human rights record..

point being it's not our business to impose western values anywhere.
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Those values need embraced and not imposed.

Trump has the right general principle---they should be encouraged to embrace them. Ostensibly, through diplomatic means, since we've learned some painful lessons about the other approach.

The problem with leaving countries alone that choose sharia, is that it's a militaristic and totalitarian ideology in some of its manifestations: the Saudis are content to impose its draconian dictates within its own borders and we shouldn't bother them about it---beyond diplomacy.

But after we crush ISIS [or gets crushed], another radical Islamic group will spring up that's just as intent at expansionism. There's no neat and tidy answer for it. Currently, we're trying to not name them as a matter of policy as if not calling Nazis, Nazis, 70 years ago would have made a difference.

The best hope is an internal reformation in Islam. In the meantime, our best response is something between Fortress America and military intervention.
 
fucking racists are the most hated people on the planet



you hate mankind


we return the sentiment
 
evince said:
fucking racists are the most hated people on the planet



you hate mankind


we return the sentiment
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It's all bullshit, wackjob, and you know it.

The truth is, YOU are the biggest liars on the planet AND you hate mankind AND you are perverts AND Satan loves you.

Your racism is only a slice of a much bigger pie.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Those values need embraced and not imposed.

Trump has the right general principle---they should be encouraged to embrace them. Ostensibly, through diplomatic means, since we've learned some painful lessons about the other approach.

The problem with leaving countries alone that choose sharia, is that it's a militaristic and totalitarian ideology in some of its manifestations: the Saudis are content to impose its draconian dictates within its own borders and we shouldn't bother them about it---beyond diplomacy.

But after we crush ISIS [or gets crushed], another radical Islamic group will spring up that's just as intent at expansionism. There's no neat and tidy answer for it. Currently, we're trying to not name them as a matter of policy as if not calling Nazis, Nazis, 70 years ago would have made a difference.

The best hope is an internal reformation in Islam. In the meantime, our best response is something between Fortress America and military intervention.
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1. we can't reform Islam ( even though reform from Salafist and Shi'a fundamentalism is needed)
2. ISIS is a product of the Iraq war more then anything else.
#.be very careful of unintended consequences, and frankly I don't care how other countires govern themselves.
4. SA alliance with Pakistan and Gulf States are combatting ISIS ( albeit after funding it) - but SA is tied up in Yemen.
We are being effective against ISIS ( Obama has the right idea after all his mismanagement otherwise) -Mosul is next.
 
just like the republican party used to fund the tea tards who are now distroying the republcan party
 
anatta said:
1. we can't reform Islam ( even though reform from Salafist and Shi'a fundamentalism is needed)
2. ISIS is a product of the Iraq war more then anything else.
#.be very careful of unintended consequences, and frankly I don't care how other countires govern themselves.
4. SA alliance with Pakistan and Gulf States are combatting ISIS ( albeit after funding it) - but SA is tied up in Yemen.
We are being effective against ISIS ( Obama has the right idea after all his mismanagement otherwise) -Mosul is next.
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ISIS can be worn down, probably. Obama's biggest mistake was sitting on his hands [he declared ISIS JV] after Iraq fell---this allowed the caliphate to be established.

ISIS is a product of the Iraq war only insofar as Iraq was mishandled by the Obama administration after it was handed to them by the previous administration. A stable Iraq would have prevented ISIS from taking hold in Iraq. Syria, maybe not so much. ISIS is a group held together by a shared ideology so they likely would have popped up somewhere else, and Syria would likely be the region where they would have stayed.

Only Muslims can reform Islam and everything in our power should be done to encourage it. Not uttering the phrase 'radical Islam' only gives the false hope to moderate Muslims that ISIS isn't, first and foremost, a problem within Islam itself.

And yes, we need to stay the hell out of the region---as much as possible, anyway. That's the tricky part. The thing with unintended consequences is that not doing anything can have consequences, too.

Hillary will continue the Obama protocol and/or be more apt to intervene [see: Libya]. She will coddle groups like the Muslim Brotherhood [see: Egypt] so the region would likely continue to deteriorate.

Trump, at minimum, will quit the politically correct games and he's less apt to get us into some half-assed military adventure. If Trump goes in, he goes into win---the rest of the time he borders on isolationist.

Advantage: Trump.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
ISIS can be worn down, probably. Obama's biggest mistake was sitting on his hands [he declared ISIS JV] after Iraq fell---this allowed the caliphate to be established.

ISIS is a product of the Iraq war only insofar as Iraq was mishandled by the Obama administration after it was handed to them by the previous administration. A stable Iraq would have prevented ISIS from taking hold in Iraq. Syria, maybe not so much. ISIS is a group held together by a shared ideology so they likely would have popped up somewhere else, and Syria would likely be the region where they would have stayed.

Only Muslims can reform Islam and everything in our power should be done to encourage it. Not uttering the phrase 'radical Islam' only gives the false hope to moderate Muslims that ISIS isn't, first and foremost, a problem within Islam itself.

And yes, we need to stay the hell out of the region---as much as possible, anyway. That's the tricky part. The thing with unintended consequences is that not do anything can have consequences, too.

Hillary will continue the Obama protocol and/or be more apt to intervene [see: Libya]. She will coddle groups like the Muslim Brotherhood [see: Egypt] so the region would likely continue to deteriorate.

Trump, at minimum, will quit the politically correct games and he's less apt to get us into some half-assed military adventure. If Trump goes in, he goes into win---the rest of the time he borders on isolationist.

Advantage: Trump.
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Completely, utterly delusional. On every level.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
ISIS can be worn down, probably. Obama's biggest mistake was sitting on his hands [he declared ISIS JV] after Iraq fell---this allowed the caliphate to be established.

ISIS is a product of the Iraq war only insofar as Iraq was mishandled by the Obama administration after it was handed to them by the previous administration. A stable Iraq would have prevented ISIS from taking hold in Iraq. Syria, maybe not so much. ISIS is a group held together by a shared ideology so they likely would have popped up somewhere else, and Syria would likely be the region where they would have stayed.

Only Muslims can reform Islam and everything in our power should be done to encourage it. Not uttering the phrase 'radical Islam' only gives the false hope to moderate Muslims that ISIS isn't, first and foremost, a problem within Islam itself.

And yes, we need to stay the hell out of the region---as much as possible, anyway. That's the tricky part. The thing with unintended consequences is that not doing anything can have consequences, too.

Hillary will continue the Obama protocol and/or be more apt to intervene [see: Libya]. She will coddle groups like the Muslim Brotherhood [see: Egypt] so the region would likely continue to deteriorate.

Trump, at minimum, will quit the politically correct games and he's less apt to get us into some half-assed military adventure. If Trump goes in, he goes into win---the rest of the time he borders on isolationist.

Advantage: Trump.
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ISIS grew from AQI, during the Bush adm..It's a product of Sunni insurgency hijacked by Baathist leadership coupled with Iraqi sectarianism.

No we don't "stay out" - doing so only adds to power vacuum extremes, but we do not intervene like Hillary/Obama/Bush -yes.
We can continue to check Iranian expansionism, but only by partnering with the Sunni states,who have their own problems,
but are now becoming more active. 6th fleet belongs there etc..

Trumps isolationism isn't good either. Hopefully he's just venting. and yes it certainly IS "radical Islam" call it by name.
 
anatta said:
ISIS grew from AQI, during the Bush adm..It's a product of Sunni insurgency hijacked by Baathist leadership coupled with Iraqi sectarianism.

No we don't "stay out" - doing so only adds to power vacuum extremes, but we do not intervene like Hillary/Obama/Bush -yes.
We can continue to check Iranian expansionism, but only by partnering with the Sunni states,who have their own problems,
but are now becoming more active. 6th fleet belongs there etc..

Trumps isolationism isn't good either. Hopefully he's just venting. and yes it certainly IS "radical Islam" call it by name.
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The first sentence is interesting because it leads to another path of had-we-done-this-or-not-done that conjecture. Pre-invasion Iraq was only 'secular' by Middle East standards. There was a great deal of tension between the Islamists and the Baathists in Saddams regime. All it would have took was a bullet to Saddams head by one of the Sunni extremists and Iraq would be just as messy today if Al Gore would have just found a few more hanging chads back in 2000.

I don't think Trump is an isolationist extremist. But he advocates staying home more and strengthening the military.

I find that hard to argue with.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
The first sentence is interesting because it leads to another path of had-we-done-this-or-not-done that conjecture. Pre-invasion Iraq was only 'secular' by Middle East standards. There was a great deal of tension between the Islamists and the Baathists in Saddams regime. All it would have took was a bullet to Saddams head by one of the Sunni extremists and Iraq would be just as messy today if Al Gore would have just found a few more hanging chads back in 2000.

I don't think Trump is an isolationist extremist. But he advocates staying home more and strengthening the military.

I find that hard to argue with.
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i dont get where people see the isolasionist extremist thing. If you were isolasionist extreme you wouldnt bother negotiating with China and/or Russia you would just cut them off. Typical hyperbole from the left. Making deals and decisions that are advantageous to you instead of everyone else is not isolasionism its common sense.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
The first sentence is interesting because it leads to another path of had-we-done-this-or-not-done that conjecture. Pre-invasion Iraq was only 'secular' by Middle East standards. There was a great deal of tension between the Islamists and the Baathists in Saddams regime. All it would have took was a bullet to Saddams head by one of the Sunni extremists and Iraq would be just as messy today if Al Gore would have just found a few more hanging chads back in 2000.

I don't think Trump is an isolationist extremist. But he advocates staying home more and strengthening the military.

I find that hard to argue with.
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but it was more secular, it was unified under a dictatorship like Libya, but there was still a sense of nationalism
like Libya..When you decapitate a dictator ..well you know what happens..

But in Iraq the real problems came from the de-Baathification of the Iraqi army. All of a sudden it left career officers out of work
so they joined the insurgency,,etc.

What I find most bothersome about Trump is his willingness to dump NATO over costs.
That is extreme isolationism,, even by "America first" standards.

There are some things I like about him too ( which is more then I can say about Clinton) :whoa:
 
anatta said:
but it was more secular, it was unified under a dictatorship like Libya, but there was still a sense of nationalism
like Libya..When you decapitate a dictator ..well you know what happens..

But in Iraq the real problems came from the de-Baathification of the Iraqi army. All of a sudden it left career officers out of work
so they joined the insurgency,,etc.

What I find most bothersome about Trump is his willingness to dump NATO over costs.
That is extreme isolationism,, even by "America first" standards.

There are some things I like about him too ( which is more then I can say about Clinton) :whoa:
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ehh its a negotiating position. Obama and Bush never said they were willing to dump nato so when NATO said no to paying more all they could do was cry. Mark my words NATO will be begging Trump to let them pay more so the US stays in.
 
tsuke said:
i dont get where people see the isolasionist extremist thing. If you were isolasionist extreme you wouldnt bother negotiating with China and/or Russia you would just cut them off. Typical hyperbole from the left. Making deals and decisions that are advantageous to you instead of everyone else is not isolasionism its common sense.
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So you say.
 
tsuke said:
ehh its a negotiating position. Obama and Bush never said they were willing to dump nato so when NATO said no to paying more all they could do was cry. Mark my words NATO will be begging Trump to let them pay more so the US stays in.
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Yup, it's called negotiating from a position of power. We don't need NATO they need us. Europe won't be able to afford the entitlement programs and have militaries at the say time. We know it, they know we know it so put the pressure on them.
 
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