Longest Serving Dem Senator Slams Obama over Power Grab

You really need to read the Federalist Papers. It is most definitely NOT a solely "modern concept". Geez. Even the Romans based their government on it, before it was corrupted it worked well.

Looking at the third world, presidential democracies are the ones prone to corruption and dictatorships (think Latin America) and parliamentary ones are the ones that last. The separation of powers concept is flawed. America has succeeded despite, not because of, the presidential system, and we've almost fallen into dictatorship quite a few times.
 
Byrd raises a valid point. Presidential advisors ("czars") can be shielded from testifying in front of Congress (see Rove, Karl) while cabinet secretaries and the like can be compelled to testify. Using presidential advisors to avoid congressional oversight is problematic and Byrd is right to call attention to it.
 
Looking at the third world, presidential democracies are the ones prone to corruption and dictatorships (think Latin America) and parliamentary ones are the ones that last. The separation of powers concept is flawed. America has succeeded despite, not because of, the presidential system, and we've almost fallen into dictatorship quite a few times.
Who are you reading? Did you find "we failed political science dot com" and start spouting off? Link us up to where you get this stuff. It sounds like the Onion.

BTW, Parliamentary government is just another form of separation of powers. Do they sit as ruler and Judge? (Distinct separation between the Judiciary and Legislative).

The concept is ages old, and has worked well for many different governments.
 
Yes I got it from Drudge, the number one independent news site. It's not like this is from SeanHannity.com or something, Drudge posts interesting and eye-catching material that burns both sides (uscitizen reads it a lot for example).
I add some context and a headline that provides interesting debate, I don't always post from Drudge, I've posted other news from other sites and posted my personal opinion, writings, satirical stuff, philosophical threads, etc...

Dungheap for reasons known only to himself thinks because if it might have come from Drudge then he gets to get lucky or something and gets to avoid having to dignify it with any debate.
Who cares? What a total non-issue what the source is, moreso when you consider that Drudge just links to a variety of different sites.
 
Yes I got it from Drudge, the number one independent news site. It's not like this is from SeanHannity.com or something, Drudge posts interesting and eye-catching material that burns both sides (uscitizen reads it a lot for example).
I add some context and a headline that provides interesting debate, I don't always post from Drudge, I've posted other news from other sites and posted my personal opinion, writings, satirical stuff, philosophical threads, etc...

Dungheap for reasons known only to himself thinks because if it might have come from Drudge then he gets to get lucky or something and gets to avoid having to dignify it with any debate.
Who cares? What a total non-issue what the source is, moreso when you consider that Drudge just links to a variety of different sites.


Check out post #22, hot shot.

And I don't mind stuff from Drudge at all (except for his original works . . . developing . . .). My criticism was that you should do more than simply report what you read on Drudge. Provide some original content to stimulate discussion.
 
Check out post #22, hot shot.

And I don't mind stuff from Drudge at all (except for his original works . . . developing . . .). My criticism was that you should do more than simply report what you read on Drudge. Provide some original content to stimulate discussion.

And I do. As the most recent example, just yesterday I posted my own piece about how Dems are consuming the economy rather than saving it.

Is that good enough? If not, maybe you can team up with that ThreadDirector troll and figure out how better to please you, O guardian of teh forum content.
:vik:
 
Check out post #22, hot shot.

And I don't mind stuff from Drudge at all (except for his original works . . . developing . . .). My criticism was that you should do more than simply report what you read on Drudge. Provide some original content to stimulate discussion.

I hope you are equally critical of Desh the next time she posts a link to a story without much comment....
 
Who are you reading? Did you find "we failed political science dot com" and start spouting off? Link us up to where you get this stuff. It sounds like the Onion.

BTW, Parliamentary government is just another form of separation of powers. Do they sit as ruler and Judge? (Distinct separation between the Judiciary and Legislative).

The concept is ages old, and has worked well for many different governments.

Britian maintains a voluntary seperation between legislature and judge, but the parliament is clearly the superior body, having the ability to revoke legislative independence at any time (which isn't done mainly because it would be political insanity).

I'm not exactly saying we should go that far do away with the concept of separation of powers, I just don't think it's all high and mighty. And I think the legislature should definitely reign supreme, which was the opinion of a number of our founders.
 
Britian maintains a voluntary seperation between legislature and judge, but the parliament is clearly the superior body, having the ability to revoke legislative independence at any time (which isn't done mainly because it would be political insanity).

I'm not exactly saying we should go that far do away with the concept of separation of powers, I just don't think it's all high and mighty. And I think the legislature should definitely reign supreme, which was the opinion of a number of our founders.
So you are saying that they practice separation of powers even though they don't have to (silliness and shows a complete misunderstanding of the concept of their free-flowing 'constitution'.) and that makes you right somehow?

The separation of powers has produced the "freest" societies to date with the most protections for citizens. Even in places where you think they do it by choice.
 
So you are saying that they practice separation of powers even though they don't have to (silliness and shows a complete misunderstanding of the concept of their free-flowing 'constitution'.) and that makes you right somehow?

The separation of powers has produced the "freest" societies to date with the most protections for citizens. Even in places where you think they do it by choice.

The "constitution" of the UK is just a body of important pieces of legislation they've decided to rename. It is more akin statute than a real constitution. By tradition, they don't mess with the judgments of the judiciary, although I seriously doubt they've never passed a law that interfered with a judges decision. But if the legislature could simply tell the president to do whatever the fuck they wanted him to do, and just usually decided not to, it wouldn't be called "separation of powers" because one side 100% of the real powers. You fail political science forever.
 
The "constitution" of the UK is just a body of important pieces of legislation they've decided to rename. It is more akin statute than a real constitution. By tradition, they don't mess with the judgments of the judiciary, although I seriously doubt they've never passed a law that interfered with a judges decision. But if the legislature could simply tell the president to do whatever the fuck they wanted him to do, and just usually decided not to, it wouldn't be called "separation of powers" because one side 100% of the real powers. You fail political science forever.
Charver will need to set you straight. Their constitution is stronger than you want to believe in this post.

This is the important bit:
The reality is they practice separation of powers, even though you don't want them to and think it's "optional" for some reason. Your example was of a government that practices a different version of separation of powers, but it is certainly practicing that notion. The idea that it must be formed exactly like the US is simply Amerocentric inanity that recognizes nothing at all outside the US.
 
"Separation of powers" and "checks and balances" are terms never once used in the constitution. It's a completely modern concept. The president can do what he wants, but the legislature doesn't have to listen. The fact that the legislature is controlled by allies makes it likely they will, however.

try reading marbury v. madison (1803)

or maybe that is modern to you :pke:

the theory also existed long before that...
 
i would need to talk to a constitution lawyer to get the reality of this

czars have been appointed before with such an uproar

while it is true that the constitution provides for senate oversight of appointments, the president is allowed to choose his personal advisers

i suspect that bho wants advisers now rather than after vetting and approval

he has a large number of appoints to make and is being more through with the vetting process

but, he needs the help now
 
1) I understand that Dano provided a quote from the Politico article, but he copied the Drudge headline practically verbatim and his last two posts are two of the top two stories on Drudge. He does this all the time.

2) I don't care about the article? Why didn't Dano talk about the article. He offers nothing.

3) I'm not attacking the source. I'm just saying that posting articles that are on Drudge without much commentary at all is stupid. If I wanted that I would go to Drudge. Dano should just start five threads of www.drudgereport.com.

Yawn.
 
Charver will need to set you straight. Their constitution is stronger than you want to believe in this post.

This is the important bit:
The reality is they practice separation of powers, even though you don't want them to and think it's "optional" for some reason. Your example was of a government that practices a different version of separation of powers, but it is certainly practicing that notion. The idea that it must be formed exactly like the US is simply Amerocentric inanity that recognizes nothing at all outside the US.

Ooh, it's not often i get to put my constitutional head on.

This may sound like sitting on the fence here but i think you're both right. You can argue that our Constitution is both "not worth the paper it is not written on" and responsible for producing a stable democratic system and make a convincing argument either way.

There is a separation of powers albeit a weak one in comparison with the definite separations defined in your own constitution. Through the quirks of history we have developed a series of checks and balances to ensure a degree of executive, legislative and judicial independence and flexibility which ensures we do not run into the problems of deadlock which you're all too familiar with over there. On the other hand flexibility leads to uncertainly.

WM is right when pointing out the dominance of Parliament (or more recently the Executive in Parliament). For example, the judiciary, technically, has no power to strike down legislation. When the Human Rights Act was passed, in 1997, incorporating the European Convention on Human Rights into English law it was an opportunity to give judges that power but Parliament insisted on the preservation of the Doctrine of Parliamentary Sovereignty. Therefore the most a judge can do to protect our fundamental human rights is to make a declaration of incompatibility and ask the government to think again, while the offending law remains valid. That'll frighten the buggers, eh?

Are you sure you wanted me to answer this?

Anyway, although i've just said that judges aren't technically allowed to veto legislation, they do. Under the European Communities Act (ECA) we're signed up to the concept of EC law, which takes precedence over domestic law. So UK legislation has been vetoed by judges as being incompatible with EC law. This would be a breach of Parliament's Sovereignty but it is suggested that because Parliament intended EC law to be supreme, by passing the ECA, then the judiciary are merely giving effect to Parliament's will and, moreover, that if Parliament gave a clear intention to act inconsistently with EU law then the courts would be obliged to submit to Parliament's will but this is not definitive. All clear? No, i didn't think so.

We also have the increasing problem of the blurring of Executive and Legislature which has led to what many see as an "elective dictatorship" (thanks for that Lord Hailsham) as party discipline has eroded the concept of MP's independence and the House of Lords has been sidelined. In addition the increased use of enabling legislation which, once passed, allows the executive to make changes to the law without Parliamentary scrutiny can be viewed as the encroachment of executive into the territory of the legislature.

So, how strong are the separations? Christ knows. As strong as the Executive in Parliament is willing to maintain them, i suppose, but that would be dependent, ultimately, on the willingness of public opinion to accept it.

In truth i could write a 10,000 word essay on this and struggle to give a definitive answer. This is how dull i can get when i'm not being daft.
 
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