cancel2 2022
Canceled
I have made the same point many times, indeed most professional jobs come with a private healthcare package.
London Anti-Trump Protest Much Larger Than Expected
- Thread starter Joe Capitalist
- Start date
I have made the same point many times, indeed most professional jobs come with a private healthcare package.
Life is Golden
The Sage
Where are your sources? Anecdotes are not sources. You made the claim, back it up. And while you're at it, show a successful Socialist healthcare system which covers 350 million people. Comparing Sweden to the US is non-proportional.
That's a joke. Insurance policies are contracts with defined coverage parameters. The doctors determine the treatment for the patient, not a gubmint employee looking at a chart.
There is no rationing but there would be with the crap gubmint at the helm. Have you been to the DMV? lol Don't care to replicate that dirty, low-quality experience at the doctor's office or hospital.
Life is Golden
The Sage
YEP. Big time.
Life is Golden
The Sage
Obama was an angry, toxic America-loathing race-baiting, POS. My blood boiled as he went on his apology tour shitting on this great country abroad. Instead of praising us as the pinnacle of freedom -- him being a prime example of it as first black President-- all he could say was America sucks. And that is why I am ALL IN for Trump. Me and a lot of other people. All the way. I never want to return to the toxic, mediocrity desiring, American hating left.
Screw that bullshit tale. Every country on the planet has unfavorable history at some point. This country has done more for the world than any other and I'm tired of the ingrates who don't appreciate it. I dare you to name one country which has contributed more to humanity and on the grand scale we have.
Just one.
No one done has ever said that. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna say America sucks and kiss the ass of fascist third world countries.
No. Not. Ever. Not in this lifetime.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
But.... but.... muh Fake News....
Jade Dragon
And I'm the one that jaded you.
For your first part, India has more people then America, and even they have a decent system of universal healthcare. Still they have issues with the better care being in more populated areas, and lacking more in rural areas. That's true even here though.
For the second part money decides your treatment in more ways then one. Doctors in America, more then most places, are paid to prescribe meds, and will often give them when they aren't even close to necessary. That's a big reason for the opioid epidemics. If everyone's getting care it means you will wait. Would you be happier you don't have to wait if you personally knew some of the people not getting the care they need, because of our system? What if it was a loved one?
Jade Dragon
And I'm the one that jaded you.
OK calm down. Sorry, this seems kind of touchy of a subject, I guess. Try not to take this stuff that seriously. We're just one country among many. We caused quite a lot of backlash with the Iraq war, and going about it against our allies. The apologists come about, because we throw our weight around too much. Trump is very toxic with that way of behaving, so you can probably expect more years of trying to mend fences, by him being elected. If he doesn't get elected again, it may tame the need for such.
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Other countries are smaller than the US, That should tell you they have fewer resources to use on healthcare. They still commit themselves to help the people. In America, we have healthcare rationing. Millions go without. The top care is not for the poor. Wait times in America are long.
How many other countries have you experienced public health care in? Sounds like to none to me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4971706/
Your argument that a country with more ppl can't do socialized health care right is insulting to American ingenuity and enterprise. If we could manage a great interstate highway system spanning a country almost as large as all of Europe, we can do this too. I'm on Medicare, for instance, and have had no issues with access to care or cost.
You are quite naive if you believe that. Your physician may decide to treat your high cholesterol with a particular pharmaceutical, but your insurance company very well might decline to cover it and instead direct her to prescribe something else. You may need surgery to repair ligaments on your torn meniscus, but your insurance company will likely deny it unless your physician has prescribed a regiment of conservative care (PT, meds) first. How do I know this? The last three years of my nursing career I worked in managed care doing utilization review. All insurance companies use this process to decide if proposed treatment is medically necessary. So yep -- bean counters are overseeing your medical treatment.
https://www.mcg.com/blog/2018/06/21/utilization-review-medical-necessity/
You must have a crappy DMV there. Even in Missouri we could renew our stuff online; we can do that here in Michigan as well. That's comparing apples to oranges, of course.
Every international socialized health care system I've read about allows patients to purchase their own supplemental insurance policy as a back-up. So does Medicare in the United States. I have a supplemental plan, for example. There is no rationing other than what the insurers decline to cover. For instance, I have cataracts which are going to require surgery soon. Medicare will cover basic replacement lenses. I am free to utilize my supplemental plan to upgrade them, and/or pay out of pocket for top-of-the-line lenses. But they won't deny me the needed surgery when it becomes medically necessary.
Life is Golden
The Sage
Medicare is a fraction of the population and pays providers a mere pittance. I've seen state run hospitals and how dirty and shitty the care is there. All of the regulations and malpractice insurance have run most private practice physicians out of business as it is. Everything the govt touches is crappy and that's because there is no incentive for quality as they have no competition. Just a steady siphoning of taxpayer money. No need to be the best as they can't ever go out of business.
Utilization management is NOT the same as rationing care as the gubmint would have to do due to a lack of money. As long as a doctor can provide clinical proof of medical necessity, the insurance will pay, with exceptions for things such as experimental or investigational. A health insurance contract is a legal document with specific language as to what is and isn't covered so no, "bean counters" are not deciding a plan of medical care or determining you will not get it based on a chart designed to ration care to the unwashed masses.
Please see the article outlining the groundwork for rationing written by Ezekiel Emanuel, Rahm's brother, originally published in the Lancet: https://www.scribd.com/document/18280675/Principles-for-Allocation-of-Scarce-Medical-Interventions
I do mine online but my experience in government offices is the service is poor, slow with no sense of urgency or quality. That's the gubmint way.
Insurance companies do not ration or decide on a plan for your health, doctors and the family do that now. If you have insurance and the policy covers the procedure, Rx, etc. and you meet the medical requirements as documented by a participating physician, they will pay the allowed rate for the services.
If Socialist medicine was so wonderful, the heads of state from Canada, etc. would not come to the US for health procedures, they would stay right where they are. You are really naive and have bought into another hoax.
reagansghost
eternal
British arch conserative Boris Johnson flips off Trump
Boris Johnson turns down Donald Trump meeting
According to an official close to Johnson, the U.S. president called the former foreign secretary and suggested they have a one-to-one meeting. The official said that Johnson thanked Trump but declined the invitation as he had to prepare for a Tory leadership campaign event.
HAHAHAHAAAA!!
Boris Johnson turns down Donald Trump meeting
According to an official close to Johnson, the U.S. president called the former foreign secretary and suggested they have a one-to-one meeting. The official said that Johnson thanked Trump but declined the invitation as he had to prepare for a Tory leadership campaign event.
HAHAHAHAAAA!!
reagansghost
eternal
It's cathartic when polls are so very right.
Hyperbole, and not true. Are you claiming that most physicians now work for the govt.? What is a "private physician"? Of course there is competition for govt. funds -- that's what the whole bid system is. We already have contractors who bid for govt. contracts to build bridges and highways, dams, defense materiel, etc. They have very specific guidelines just to qualify to bid. We can extend that to hospitals and other health providers. You're assuming that in the event we enact a national health care system that all current providers will suddenly go out of business. Nope. It can be structured so that they will have to bid to be able to accept patients using the national health care plan. Private insurance companies will continue to exist. As someone else pointed out, employers can offer supplemental plans as hiring incentives to their employees.
You have no idea what you are talking about. My husband's career was spent in IT, building databases for the very large health insurance company he worked for, for decades. You've heard of CIGNA? These databases are used by insurers to determine risk management, cost effectiveness of various treatments/medications, and how to structure better outcomes both for profitability and for patients. I deliberately listed them in that order because they are beholden to their shareholders first, and to you second. Have you ever wondered why, some years ago, most health insurers decided that they would cover preventative care for free or with very low co-pays? It's because the bean counters showed that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." It doesn't matter whether it's a corporation overseeing the payment part of your care, or the govt. through a Medicare or Medicaid plan -- in the end it's the bean counters who decide what and if and how much. This is "rationing" care.
Utilization personnel are given written guidelines to use in deciding whether a proposed treatment plan can be authorized. Physicians and other providers have access to these guidelines as well. States regulate insurance companies doing business in their jurisdictions, which adds another whole layer of complexity to the current system. Look at rates for health insurance across the U.S. and how they differ. Now imagine if all that was wiped away and under one umbrella. Employers would no longer be on hook for offering health insurance unless they choose to as an incentive. Employees would pay smaller or no premiums, and would be free to choose a supplemental private plan if they want. The savings would nearly offset the cost to taxpayers.
Bingo. If. Who decides the "if" part? Bean counters.
I'm sure that you can document all the times heads of state have come here instead of being treated in their own countries. The hoax joke is on you! BTW, are you aware of how many ppl go to Mexico and other countries for medication, dentistry, joint replacements, and cosmetic surgery? If our current system is so wonderful, why is this happening?
https://www.newsweek.com/thousands-...ico-affordable-medical-treatment-each-1426943
and
"Patients who travel to another country to seek health care are referred to as medical tourists. The term arose because many Americans seek less expensive elective surgical, dental, or cosmetic procedures while vacationing abroad. Of course, US hospitals and physicians have also long cared for medical tourists from other countries. Now, many medical tourists are going the other way—from the United States to other countries to receive health care. In 2007, it is estimated that 750,000 Americans traveled to other countries for health care.1 In 2017, more than 1.4 million Americans sought health care in a variety of countries around the world."
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(18)30620-X/fulltext
Joe Capitalist
Racism is a disease
Well, thanks for confirming you're a fucking racist. On to the IGNORE list you go, you little backwoods skinhead loser.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
we used to have that......
christiefan915
Catalyst
Absolutely. Every now and then the news will come out that some rich foreigner got moved to the front of the transplant line in this country. Money talks. It's legal but IMO, unethical.
"But Pardes left out his hospital’s own contribution to the shortage: From 2013 to 2016, it gave 20 livers to foreign nationals who came to the United States solely for a transplant — essentially exporting the organs and removing them from the pool available to New Yorkers.
That represented 5.2 percent of the hospital’s liver transplants during that time, one of the highest ratios in the country.
Little known to the public, or to sick patients and their families, organs donated domestically are sometimes given to patients flying in from other countries, who often pay a premium. Some hospitals even seek out foreign patients in need of a transplant. A Saudi Arabian company, Ansaq Medical Co., whose stated aim is to “facilitate the procedures and mechanisms of ‘medical tourism,’” said it signed an agreement with Ochsner Medical Center in New Orleans in 2015."
https://www.propublica.org/article/some-hospitals-do-not-put-americans-first-for-liver-transplants#
Medical tourism is big business.