Liberals Ideas for Cutting the Deficit...

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I support merit pay for teachers.

I still want to know why the stated who aren't unionized have poorer results than the states that are unionized if unions are the problem?

Unions are not the problem entirely. In fact, teachers unions have been somewhat beneficial to have in some ways, through the years.. but what has transpired, is several generations of people who (are living longer) and entitled to the pensions they have been promised. All of that has to continue to be supported, as we try to hire more teachers, who will also have the same pension plans... do you see where this is leading? It just can't continue this way, something has to be changed, our old system doesn't work with the Baby Boomer generation retiring, it's too many 'retired' for us to pay for.

Another thing is health care costs... no one knows how much that will be in the future, there is much uncertainty... how can a state promise to cover all health care costs for a certain group of people, not knowing what the cost will be, and still maintain a balanced budget?

FDR made the most compelling argument against public sector unions, his philosophy was, people who work for the government, work for the people, they represent the concerns and interests of the people... collective bargaining is counter-intuitive to that principle, because you are bargaining with the very people you represent the interests of.

 

[Phantasmal]

Unions are not the problem entirely. In fact, teachers unions have been somewhat beneficial to have in some ways, through the years.. but what has transpired, is several generations of people who (are living longer) and entitled to the pensions they have been promised. All of that has to continue to be supported, as we try to hire more teachers, who will also have the same pension plans... do you see where this is leading? It just can't continue this way, something has to be changed, our old system doesn't work with the Baby Boomer generation retiring, it's too many 'retired' for us to pay for.

Another thing is health care costs... no one knows how much that will be in the future, there is much uncertainty... how can a state promise to cover all health care costs for a certain group of people, not knowing what the cost will be, and still maintain a balanced budget?

FDR made the most compelling argument against public sector unions, his philosophy was, people who work for the government, work for the people, they represent the concerns and interests of the people... collective bargaining is counter-intuitive to that principle, because you are bargaining with the very people you represent the interests of.

Well, that was back in the greatest generation ever, when people worked for the government for less as a sense of pride and making the nation greater, now there is just a sense of greed, and the low pay of government jobs were not attracting the caliber of people needed to run the government. They were leaving for the private sector where the benefits and wages were better due to unions.

You get what you pay for is basically where we are at today.

Human greed is what has gotten us where we are today.

 

[Canceled2]

The department of education.

Also, Texas has teachers unions. That's my understanding. All states do. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

All states have teachers unions the difference is that right to work states do not have compulsory membership.

 

[zappasguitar]

How about we have a system where teachers get paid by how well they educate their students? I'd be all for that! I would love to be able to double or even triple the salary of a teacher, based on that teacher's results with actually educating students.

And just how exactly do you plan on determining whether it was poor teaching or MIA parents who don't care that caused students to underperform?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Well, that was back in the greatest generation ever, when people worked for the government for less as a sense of pride and making the nation greater, now there is just a sense of greed, and the low pay of government jobs were not attracting the caliber of people needed to run the government. They were leaving for the private sector where the benefits and wages were better due to unions.

You get what you pay for is basically where we are at today.

Human greed is what has gotten us where we are today.

You're right, back in those days, people went to work for the government because they wanted to help people, they knew it meant giving up a little pay over the public sector, but the trade off was job security and the sense of knowing you made a difference. But what do we have today? We have people breaking their necks to get hired on by the Government... those are our most prized jobs! I mean, state pensions, federal pensions, you're set for life with the bennies... Who doesn't want to work for the government?

And what type people are we getting for the money? People who are more motivated by their benefits and government job, than doing the job they were hired to do.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And just how exactly do you plan on determining whether it was poor teaching or MIA parents who don't care that caused students to underperform?

It doesn't matter, a teacher's job is to teach children. Some do this better than others, and they should be paid on the basis of how effective they are. MIA Parents is an "excuse" to hide behind, and claim it's not the teacher's job to teach. If you want to come up with a plan to motivate MIA parents, I am all ears... but this has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is teachers teaching our children.

 

[Phantasmal]

It doesn't matter, a teacher's job is to teach children. Some do this better than others, and they should be paid on the basis of how effective they are. MIA Parents is an "excuse" to hide behind, and claim it's not the teacher's job to teach. If you want to come up with a plan to motivate MIA parents, I am all ears... but this has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is teachers teaching our children.

Bullshit, absolutely! Missing parents isn't an excuse, it is a factor in the equation. So is hunger, so are many other things, like in Alaska, cultural differences. They aren't excuses they are part of the cause and effect.

I use to spend a lot of time in the class room. I have seen the issues that teachers deal with and believe me, the home plays a BIG part in education, it isn't an excuse.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Bullshit, absolutely! Missing parents isn't an excuse, it is a factor in the equation. So is hunger, so are many other things, like in Alaska, cultural differences. They aren't excuses they are part of the cause and effect.

I use to spend a lot of time in the class room. I have seen the issues that teachers deal with and believe me, the home plays a BIG part in education, it isn't an excuse.

No, they are ALL excuses for teachers not teaching our children. A GOOD teacher can overcome those challenges, and often they do. I just think those teachers should be rewarded accordingly. I agree, home life is certainly a factor, and something that needs to be addressed separately from this, because ALL teachers face the same challenges, it's a part of their job. This doesn't negate the difference between a teacher who gets results and a teacher who struggles to maintain minimal standards, or fails completely. Some teachers are very good at what they do, it's why they became teachers... they are exceptional at teaching children, they get results... they should be rewarded for what they do in the classroom, not by some arbitrary union agreement which applies across the board to all teachers.

 

[zappasguitar]

It doesn't matter, a teacher's job is to teach children. Some do this better than others, and they should be paid on the basis of how effective they are. MIA Parents is an "excuse" to hide behind, and claim it's not the teacher's job to teach. If you want to come up with a plan to motivate MIA parents, I am all ears... but this has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is teachers teaching our children.

Yes, a teacher's job is to teach...not to play surrogate parent because the two the student has at home couldn't be bothered to take some responsibility for their child's education.

If a child comes to school and doesn't want to learn, how can you possibly claim it is the teacher's responsibility to see to it that child does get an education?

The responsibility lies solely on the shoulders of that child's parents and a teacher shouldn't be constantly worried about termination because he/she won some perverse lotto and would up with some bad seeds in his/her class.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Well, that was back in the greatest generation ever, when people worked for the government for less as a sense of pride and making the nation greater, now there is just a sense of greed, and the low pay of government jobs were not attracting the caliber of people needed to run the government. They were leaving for the private sector where the benefits and wages were better due to unions.

You get what you pay for is basically where we are at today.

Human greed is what has gotten us where we are today.

the bolded part is a red herring. government jobs pay more than the private sector right now, so what makes you think low pay isn't attracting the caliber of people needed? the fact of the matter is that government doesn't WANT the caliber of people needed to work for the betterment of the nation. They want people who will shut their mouths and do what they're told.

 

[Phantasmal]

the bolded part is a red herring. government jobs pay more than the private sector right now, so what makes you think low pay isn't attracting the caliber of people needed? the fact of the matter is that government doesn't WANT the caliber of people needed to work for the betterment of the nation. They want people who will shut their mouths and do what they're told.

It wasn't a statement about today, it was a statement about the past and government jobs, but in Alaska, today, we are returning to those times. The state no longer offers the lucrative benefit packages of yesteryears, so, the jobs are not attracting the people and their skills that they once did.

I think most employers, if honest, just want people to shut their mouths and do what they are told! Most employers wish people would work for less and only want to pay them what they have to, like I said, I believe it is about greed. We are no longer happy with "enough" and I have seen people on both sides complain about how spoiled and disrespectful each generation has gotten.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes, a teacher's job is to teach...not to play surrogate parent because the two the student has at home couldn't be bothered to take some responsibility for their child's education.

If a child comes to school and doesn't want to learn, how can you possibly claim it is the teacher's responsibility to see to it that child does get an education?

The responsibility lies solely on the shoulders of that child's parents and a teacher shouldn't be constantly worried about termination because he/she won some perverse lotto and would up with some bad seeds in his/her class.

Regardless of what kind of lotto the teacher wins, they still have to educate the students, it's what they are hired to do, it's their job. What you are doing, is finding an EXCUSE for them to not do their job. Some teachers actually overcome this challenge and excel at educating children, regardless of their MIA parents or home life... how do they do it? It must be possible, because it does happen, right? So, if some teachers are capable of teaching children who have these challenges, then all teachers should be able to learn how to do that, if they expect to receive the same pay. That's all I am saying. Reward the teachers who can teach kids regardless of their circumstance, who don't hide behind the "EXCUSE" of failed parenting.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Are you suggesting that we keep military spending levels relatively the same, just to keep jobs?

You could say that about any program.

I'm in for a compromise: privatize social security, and cut the military budget by 50%. Problems solved.

 

[Liberty]

the bolded part is a red herring. government jobs pay more than the private sector right now, so what makes you think low pay isn't attracting the caliber of people needed? the fact of the matter is that government doesn't WANT the caliber of people needed to work for the betterment of the nation. They want people who will shut their mouths and do what they're told.

I'd agree with this statement totally.

 

[DamnYankee]

And just how exactly do you plan on determining whether it was poor teaching or MIA parents who don't care that caused students to underperform?

Why are the parents MIA? Liberal policies, that's why. Nice fucking job, liberal!