Just one average Joe's opinion on why the markets can't cure helathcare

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that H.R. 3200, America's Affordable Health Choices Act, is deficit neutral over the 10-year budget window and even produces a $6 billion surplus.

CBO estimated more than $550 billion in gross Medicare and Medicaid savings. More importantly, the bill includes a comprehensive array of delivery reforms to set the stage for lowering the future growth in health care costs.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/ind...orm-bill&catid=122:media-advisories&Itemid=55
 
DNC said:
Contrary to the racist hate-mongering promoted by compassionless conservatives, and as the House Ways and Means Committee Section-by-Section Analysis explains (p.8), Section 246 entitled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS" "prohibits anyone not lawfully present in the United States from obtaining affordability credits."

The bill clearly excludes undocumented immigrants from receiving federal funds to buy health insurance from either a private or government plan.
Click to expand...

sorry son....another lie....

WASHINGTON, July 22 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- As estimates of the costs of President Obama's national health care overhaul soar into the trillions of dollars, the powerful House Ways & Means Committee rejected an amendment last Friday that would have limited the taxpayers' liability by ensuring that illegal aliens would not qualify for the bill's health care benefits. In a straight party line vote, the committee's 26 Democrats rejected an amendment offered by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) to the America's Affordable Health Care Choices Act, H.R. 3200.
Click to expand...

http://sev.prnewswire.com/health-care-hospitals/20090722/DC5016022072009-1.html

Section 246
3 SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED
4 ALIENS.
5 Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States
Click to expand...

despite the section title, the wording of the section does not prohibit illegal aliens from getting government provided health insurance....it only states that this subtitle does not give them tax credits......it doesn't say they aren't eligible for everything else in the health care act.....nice bit of subterfuge, don't you think?.....
 
Last edited:
DNC said:
The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that H.R. 3200, America's Affordable Health Choices Act, is deficit neutral over the 10-year budget window and even produces a $6 billion surplus.

CBO estimated more than $550 billion in gross Medicare and Medicaid savings. More importantly, the bill includes a comprehensive array of delivery reforms to set the stage for lowering the future growth in health care costs.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/ind...orm-bill&catid=122:media-advisories&Itemid=55
Click to expand...

lol....from your link....
will cost about $245 billion. Those costs, however, are not included in the net calculations above
Click to expand...
 
Unlike every other industrialized nation, the United States of America does not offer universal health insurance.

Instead, intense lobbying by insurance companies has left us with a failed system that prizes profits above people by cherry-picking only low-risk insureds while dumping the ill and the infirm.

Most working Americans can get employer-provided private plans of varying quality at inflated prices, but the number of people covered by employers is shrinking as more and more employers cannot afford to offer coverage due to the rising prices charged by greedy insurance companies.

Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Administration provide the safety-net public plans that cover many seniors, the poor and veterans.

As fewer and fewer employers provide quality coverage, more and more people are vulnerable when catastrophe strikes.

Today, more than half of all personal bankruptcies are due to medical bills. Every 30 seconds, someone files for “medical bankruptcy.”

The administrative costs for private insurers are approximately four times the size of Medicare's. The uninsured are forced to turn to expensive emergency rooms for critical medical care, driving up costs for everyone.

Furthermore, there’s been no incentive to move towards electronic medical records, which would help prevent wasteful spending on unnecessary medical procedures.

Letting private insurance companies dictate the terms of our health care system simply hasn’t worked. They haven’t covered everybody. They haven’t kept costs reasonable.

We deserve better.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
so we turn everything over to the most efficient robber baron?.....the government?.....
Click to expand...

....and the fact that you say nothing to refute the entire gist of the post signifies? Could it be you have no argument other than an imagined fear of the future while you believe everything you are told by pharma/insurance hacks to frighten you? If It's broken, fix it, and it sure as hell is broken, otherwise why would they be spending so much money to fight it? For our benefit? Hardly.
 
Last edited:
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry....doesn't matter.....you're one of the 47 million Americans who suffer without health care and we're going to force it down your throat whether you choose it or not.....because you're too stupid to take care of yourself.....
Click to expand...

The fact that those 47+ million are uninsured drives all of our costs up. To simplify it for you, imagine the cost of automobile insurance if 47+ million automobile owners were uninsured and the rest of us had to cover for the cost of all accidents, collision and medical. That is the reason auto insurance is required by state law. Healthcare coverage takes a huge hit when the uninsured require care, but there are no laws to require or provide insurance to spread risk. The private sector has no desire to fill the void without demanding huge profits, thus the additional cost of lobbying also added to our insurance bills.
 
DNC said:
Our compassionless conservative friends seem unable to stop claiming that the proposed public option (health insurance run by government that acts as insurer of last resort) is a stalking horse for a single-payer health care system.

According to their theory, private insurance will wither in the face of a public option and President Obama will get the single-payer system he secretly wants to impose on an unwitting nation.

Here's what the President has to say on the issue: "For us to transition completely from an employer-based system of private insurance to a single-payer system could be hugely disruptive, and my attitude has been that we should be able to find a way to create a uniquely American solution to this problem that controls costs but preserves the innovation that is introduced in part with a free-market system," President Obama, Annandale, Va., on July 1, 2009.
Click to expand...


He likes huge disruption. He believes in populaton control through withholding medical care.
 
belme1201 said:
....and the fact that you say nothing to refute the entire gist of the post signifies? Could it be you have no argument other than an imagined fear of the future while you believe everything you are told by pharma/insurance hacks to frighten you? If It's broken, fix it, and it sure as hell is broken, otherwise why would they be spending so much money to fight it? For our benefit? Hardly.
Click to expand...

"monopoly is bad", so let's put the entire system in the hands of one entity?.......if it's broken fix it, but not "we had to burn the village to save it".......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
"monopoly is bad", so let's put the entire system in the hands of one entity?.......if it's broken fix it, but not "we had to burn the village to save it".......
Click to expand...

Thus far, aside from doing nothing at all, what is your alternative while still saving the village?
Yes, monopoly combined with profit and thus greed, is dangerous to the people. Would you like to go back to the days before the Standard Oil or ATT breakups? I'm certain I, and 150 million others, have greater influence with our vote on the government than we do in the boardrooms of Blue Cross, United Health, or Squibb, where profit is the prime motivation.
 
belme1201 said:
I'm certain I, and 150 million others, have greater influence with our vote on the government than we do in the boardrooms of Blue Cross, United Health, or Squibb, where profit is the prime motivation.
Click to expand...

how did that work out for you during the Bush administration?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I recall both.....as I recollect, nobody suggested the solution was to have the government take over the oil industry or the telephone industry....
Click to expand...
Or directly own just a simple "controlling interest." After first insisting how nobody wanted the government to own these companies. The inevitability of it was impressive, thankfully the inevitability has worn off now and people are putting the brakes onto their representatives.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
how did that work out for you during the Bush administration?......
Click to expand...
It worked like crap for me. Frustrated as heck I expected Bush to lose to Kerry, and voted for the Libertarian Party candidate because I could not support rampant spending and nation-building wars without declaration any longer.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
how did that work out for you during the Bush administration?......
Click to expand...

You saw the power of the vote in the 2006, 2008 elections. Not exactly a reward for the GOP Congress's previous 12 years, or bush's 8 were they?
Funny how a good thumping changes the tune so quickly, no? I will say though that they still feel bound to corporations more than to people. When will they learn?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top