Far too few on the black community are saying it, as well as their innate anti education culture.
Jordan Davis Had 2 Parents, Bill Cosby!
- Thread starter Dantès
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Far too few on the black community are saying it, as well as their innate anti education culture.
Hey dipshit, I have never said I was "brilliant" others here have said it and if you can't even make that simple distinction you probably have a lot of other things fucked up as well and your ability to relate simple information is probably also questionable.
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
Is this your way of avoiding the post mocking your ignorance on Cosby?
That said, it is good to see that you know you are nowhere in the vicinity of brilliant. You are about a half step up from Desh and Bravo. So at least you have that going for you.
cawacko
Well-known member
SD, I hesitate to ask this question because I'm not trying to start some big thread on race but do you really only think it is conservatives and racists that think in general it is best for a child growing up in a home with a mother and father? (let me also state that while I'm speaking on the whole I also recognize that each case is unique so I'm not saying it has to be this way every single time.)
And I am a white male so you are going to know the black community obviously far better than me but I also didn't grow up in some lily white suburb either. I have black friends who I see working in the community trying to get absentee fathers to be a part of their children's lives and I know these men are not Republicans.
I respectfully ask your opinion. Do you think it's not a problem/challenge within the community?
Sun Devil
Death and Taxes
Sigh*
Unlike you, I'm not going to "groan" this post because I disagree, allow me to further explain myself when I get up
Sun Devil
Death and Taxes
In response to both you and TheDude
Whenever you discuss the issue of parenting and the absence of a parental figure this issue crosses gender, race, and sexual orientation. On the subject of homosexuals, people often argue how will the child become influenced if they're raised in a homosexual environment, and so in this particular subject the idea of an absentee father is indeed problematic, and it does in part, affect the families within the African-American community. My argument is that absentee fathers are not the sole reason why there are problems within the black community. I used the political group conservatives, because quite often some members among that group like to often argue using the Protestant Worth Ethic model as if simply if people are productive members of the community the community itself will be uplifted. People often forget the "Black Wallstreets" and the productivity of various African-Americans throughout time and the social injustices and systemic forms of racism effecting such productivity. That is not to say this will happen today, but often times people become complacent with injustice and like a DNA gene pass on these mindsets to further generations.
What people don't realize is that a lot of African-American families unfortunately belong into a particular economic class, such as the working poor and at best the middle-class and in its rarest the upper-middle class. Many children born in these conditions have parents that have children in poor circumstances such as being impoverished and on government assistance, living in drug infested neighborhoods, gangs etc. Many black families especially single mothers stay in these areas because housing is cheap, and quite often many families do not have the financial resources or the family support to transition out. However, many of the men who are absent, are men who not only are either in gangs, on drugs, or in jail and most often men who are young and ill-prepared (or too immature) to handle adult responsibilities. The problems that persist come from multiple areas as I mentioned:
1) Poverty
2)Gangs
3)Education
4) Upbringing
In other cases you have children born into two parent households who are often abused by the parents because the parents either have some sort of of drug addiction, involved in gangs, alcohol, or simply a combination of the aforementioned issues along with the lack of will to deal with parental responsibilities. Sure we can look at the statistics but the statistics only reflect part of the issue not the entire issue. Which also leads me to my next question: What about children who are born into single parent households that are successful and that are contributors to society? What is the formula to their success? Because in that respect it challenges the notion that in order for children to be productive and less of a potential degenerate, they need to have two parents. It further challenges the notion that just because you have two parents does not mean there is a gurantee that those two parents will equip you with the guidance to succeed in life. With the advent of passing laws that allow homosexual couples to marry the concept of family is changing as it has been for quite some time.
So with respect to all that has been said, the issue of a two parent household is not simply black and white, but consists of a multi-faceted issues which involves more than simply "having a man around the house." The issue involves poverty, education (not just college or even high school but actual education of socioeconomic circumstances as in having a child and how costly it is to raise a child in a working poor condition), financial circumstances. I mean you can actually write a book on that. The problem with Bill Cosby whenever he talks about subjects like this is he is talking to a particular audience that has the means to drive to his location, sit down and listen to him. People like that with those kinds of platforms believe they are trying to reach out to the very communities they speak of, but little do they know that people like Sally, John, Jamal, Chris, etc do not hear Bill Cosby because they are either too busy at work, in the house attending to the kids, or too busy smoking crack. In order to actually make a difference people need assistance in getting out of their condition, education to know the difference between government assistance and assisting oneself.
Because let me ask you, if a grown man has never had any guidance all the way into adulthood how do you expect him/her to change with simply lecturing them that their behavior is a problem?
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Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
I think the above is well stated and for the most part I agree with you. You identified a lot of the problems that face the poor, including poor minorities. I would point out though that I don't believe anyone is saying 'two parents are ALWAYS better' or that 'a child of a single parent is doomed to failure'. It is not an absolute by any stretch of the imagination.
That said, on the whole, two parents being involved is going to be better for the child the vast majority of the time. It is in discussing this, like Cosby has done for decades (or like Wacko's friend does in Oakland), that we can potentially touch more and more individuals with that message; To take responsibility, to teach them better habits, etc... that will lead to breaking the cycle, one person at a time.
You are correct that a lecture to a grown man is not the best approach. A discussion on the other hand can often lead them down the same path, but providing them a tailwind instead of headwind.
Thanks again for your response.
Fatherless homes, especially due to abandonement, is a problem in the black community. It is a problem in any community. It is a circumstance that has an economic impact that contributes to crime.
Do you have some statistics that contradict the above statement?
Sun Devil
Death and Taxes
I agree SF in that discussing the problem is the basic foundation to addressing a larger issue yes I agree. Also, let me add (before anyone else says it here) that being in those conditions is by no means a justification to remain in those conditions. As I said in my previous edited post, a lot of times (even in my own family) hopelessness tends to get passed on from one generation to the next. This is my theory on why there are so many complacenet people in these impoverished conditions. A part of it is laziness, a part of it is taking advantage of a weak system, another part of it are those that reamin helpless and hopeless.
My criticism of Cosby is not the fact that he is speaking out about his own community my criticism comes from celebrities who are speaking to a crowd of people with the means to listen to him. For example, a lot of poor impoverished blacks take the bus. If someone in poverty, with no means of transportation is going to listen to something so necessary to help their way of life how do they get there? If Cosby is speaking at places like the Staples center or USC how is someone who lives in the ghettos of Long Beach going to get there? By cab? If you're broke you cannot afford a $30 taxi cab ride. By bus? If you're a knucklehead from Long Beach you aren't going to waste time and $5, $10-12 round trip just to hear Bill Cosby speak.
So as you can see when people discuss these issues they need to be in the areas where the targeted group can have access to those messages and to promote incentives for listening to those messages. you see, a broke person can find a way to an office that gives them financial incentives but if there is nothing in for the person most poor people aren't going to make the attempt. But like you said, like anything else to begin somehwere we must discuss the problem first.
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Sun Devil
Death and Taxes
I think you didn't read what I wrote. I think a 'fatherless' home is problematic, but I also highlighted the fact that having a fatherless home is not the sole contributor of issues within the Black Community. As I highlighted previously, there are environmental factors that affect the black community. I think what people forget is that black families is not entirely comprised of mere single mothers. In some cases you have both parents not in the home and extended families such as grandmothers, aunts, uncles raising children.
Just because you have two parents in the home and even parents that arte involved does not necessitate individual success. Take the rapper "The Game" for instance. Both his parents were in his life. His mother was a crip and his dad was from "Hoover Criminals." Both gang bangers and obviously they had an influence on him. Only reason why he is successful and not a statistic is because of his rapping talent. But also its because he had an opportunity to succeed. There are many talented people in "Da Hood" that are like The Game but don't get an opportunity and they eventually become statistics in the system. As you can see the problem is beyond simply a fatherless home.
cawacko
Well-known member
Thank you for the response. I want to preface this again by stating I'm not coming from a position of attacking but for wanting to see improvement. I recognize there is no simple 'snap your fingers' panacea answer that can make all these challenges disappear and as you said the challenges are multi-faceted. But I don't believe the statistics lie when they show two parent homes have less poverty than single parent homes. I think there was a reason movies like Boyz N The Hood focused on the difference between Tre and him having a father in his life and Doughboy not having one. Or the movie South Central which showed the length a man would go to to get back into his son's life and be a father. But as has been acknowledged this is just one part of it.
What I like about Bill Cosby is at least he cares enough to want to get involved and try to make a difference. It would be easy for him to rest up in his LA mansion and not give a crap. That doesn't mean he's above reproach and can't be criticized but I like what he is doing.
I started this email earlier and had to run off for work so I forgot what else I had to say so I'll post this portion.
I didn't say anything about skydiving or one guy!
Yes in many instances two incomes produce more income than one income although even that is not always the case. But for poor people it most certainly is. But such statistics are based on the idea that all 2 person households are fortunate enough to have two working parents, even this is not always the case.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
sounds like you used an example of someone who lacked BOTH parents......
christiefan915
Catalyst
I wonder if Cosby thinks all the problems of Hollywood result from single-parent households because there are an awful lot of stars having babies out of wedlock.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Bill Cosby's a lying philanderer and sexual harasser who has no moral position to speak from.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
\
'cuz mommie only makes $37 million per picture.....maybe the bodyguards will serve as male role models......
christiefan915
Catalyst
Duh. If you're a rich single-parent you get all the ooh-ing and coo-ing of a fawning media and if you're a poor single-parent you're labeled "ghetto" or "white trash."