Johns Hopkins University Scientists Suggest Reclassification of Psilocybin Mushrooms

[TrippyHippy]

of course I wasdn't doubling doses.
I don'tknow where you get the idea you have to double doses,anymore then you have to double doses on narcotics.
A tolerance doesn't mean you double doses -it means you build up a tolerance and have to increase doses

and to the rest of your posts no one is claiming physical addiction on psychotropics, but they are habit forming
to the point severe psychological dependency is a risk..

For awhile it was just for the fuck of it. Trip and do this, and trip and do that.
Then it became needed to not feel like a worn out dishrag - not getting high, just feeling normal

First of all, I think you slipped up and exposed your sock.

Second of all, psychedelic drugs are not the same as narcotics. Rather than simply manipulating serotonin receptors, they bind to them. This increased agonizing of your neurotransmitters means your tolerance spikes much quicker than with other drugs like, say, cocaine. This is one reason (out of many) it is common for users to only use psychedelics drugs on occasions (every couple of months or, for some, even years) rather than making a daily habit of it. Numerous national surveys back me on this. Psychedelic drug users do not form a habit of use. The very nature of these drugs chemically as well as in psychological effect makes them patently not habit forming.

Third, like Fentoine Lum said, you are not a neuroscientist nor are your high school stories double blinded scientific studies. Tell me why I trust the word of established university neuroscientists over some random dude on an internet forum claiming to have done a 1000 day LSD bender.

 

[evince]

The U.S. has drug problems.
I suspect some of those problems are a consequence of our success as a nation.

In the 18th century life was tough. Most persons would during the course of their lives be food generators, farmers, ranchers, etc.
Indoor plumbing, and central heat were unknown. Life was hard, and lives were short.

Our lives are much easier now. We don't have to shovel out the horse stall. We don't have to saddle the horse every time we want to go to the store for a quart of homogenized milk.

And some of us seem to find their abundance of leisure time suited to recreational drug experimentation.

That's probably a bad idea.

BUT !!

The Drug War is an even worse idea.

people have been smoking ganga and eating mushrooms for centuries

 

[evince]

First of all, I think you slipped up and exposed your sock.

Second of all, psychedelic drugs are not the same as narcotics. Rather than simply manipulating serotonin receptors, they bind to them. The nature of this increased agonizing of your neurotransmitters means your tolerance spikes much quicker than with other drugs like, say, cocaine. This is one reason (out of many) it is common for users to only use psychedelics drugs on occasions (every couple of months or, for some, even years) rather than making a daily habit of it. Numerous national surveys back me on this. Psychedelic drug users do not form a habit of use. The very nature of these drugs chemically as well as in psychological effect makes them patently not habit forming.

Third, like Fentoine Lum said, you are not a neuroscientist nor are your high school stories double blinded scientific studies. Tell me why I trust the word of established university neuroscientists over some random dude on an internet forum claiming to have done a 1000 day LSD bender.

good catch

Noise is Annatta

 

[dukkha]

His early and heavy drug use explains a lot

it explains becoming an addict. we simply were punks that didn't give a fuck about anything, and it was the late 60's.

One time I bought tickets ( back when you had to actually go to a box office or maybe a record store)
for DeepPurple.
One of my friends had bottle of Tuinal / and passed it out along the row ( we'd buy tickets in a row for the neighborhood)
People were sleeping thru DeepPurple ... I dropped acid as well so I remebrt trying to drag everyone out of their seats to the bus.. it was high times

 

[evince]

it explains becoming an addict. we simply were punks that didn't give a fuck about anything, and it was the late 60's.

One time I bought tickets ( back when you had to actually go to a box office or maybe a record store)
for DeepPurple.
One of my friends had bottle of Tuinal / and passed it out along the row ( we'd buy tickets in a row for the neighborhood)
People were sleeping thru DeepPurple ... I dropped acid as well so I remebrt trying to drag everyone out of their seats to the bus.. it was high times

annatta,


where were you getting all that acid in the late 60s?

 

[Phantasmal]

it explains becoming an addict. we simply were punks that didn't give a fuck about anything, and it was the late 60's.

One time I bought tickets ( back when you had to actually go to a box office or maybe a record store)
for DeepPurple.
One of my friends had bottle of Tuinal / and passed it out along the row ( we'd buy tickets in a row for the neighborhood)
People were sleeping thru DeepPurple ... I dropped acid as well so I remebrt trying to drag everyone out of their seats to the bus.. it was high times

I lived it, too, but not to that extent. I’m surprised you can function. My friend didn’t do nearly that amount and has long term psychological problems because of his use of psychotropics. It’s why I made the comment I did.

 

[dukkha]

First of all, I think you slipped up and exposed your sock.

Second of all, psychedelic drugs are not the same as narcotics. Rather than simply manipulating serotonin receptors, they bind to them. This increased agonizing of your neurotransmitters means your tolerance spikes much quicker than with other drugs like, say, cocaine. This is one reason (out of many) it is common for users to only use psychedelics drugs on occasions (every couple of months or, for some, even years) rather than making a daily habit of it. Numerous national surveys back me on this. Psychedelic drug users do not form a habit of use. The very nature of these drugs chemically as well as in psychological effect makes them patently not habit forming.

Third, like Fentoine Lum said, you are not a neuroscientist nor are your high school stories double blinded scientific studies. Tell me why I trust the word of established university neuroscientists over some random dude on an internet forum claiming to have done a 1000 day LSD bender.

oh grow up. "slipped and showed my sock" wtf kind of childish accusation is that? and why must a study be double blind?
what difference does it make it the therapist knows what he's giving you?

did you ever think psych dependence isn't common because psychotropics aren't common?
I haven't seen acid since like back in the time of Quaaludes.

It's been explained to you as well that dropping acid at that frequency doesn't mean you trip all that well.
My point is that is has a psychological dependency,and after awhile the brain just wants it to not feel washed out


I'm all for it's use . it also helps when facing death. I'm simply saying that there is a dependency potential

 

[dukkha]

I lived it, too, but not to that extent. I’m surprised you can function. My friend didn’t do nearly that amount and has long term psychological problems because of his use of psychotropics. It’s why I made the comment I did.

it was a brief but exciting time in the late 60's.
I'm sure if I continued..even mushrooms later one was an on and off thing.

I found dope. no ups and downs,no confusion of acid ,and got into that groove, so I paid the piper too.

 

[TrippyHippy]

oh grow up. "slipped and showed my sock" wtf kind of childish accusation is that?

It's not an accusation, it's literally what happened. You started posting as anatta and now you're posting as noise. Just pointing that out. I think it says alot about you as a poster that you have multiple accounts. How many of the accounts on this site are yours?

and why must a study be double blind?
what difference does it make it the therapist knows what he's giving you?

It prevents bias in the study. Either by placebo effect (suggestion bias) in the case of the patients taking the drug or by cognitive bias for/against the substance in the case of the administrators. Double blinding a study is incredibly important. It makes the study more scientifically sound and reliable.

did you ever think psych dependence isn't common because psychotropics aren't common?I haven't seen acid since like back in the time of Quaaludes.

That has nothing to do with this. Psych dependence isn't common in psych users. You are completely misunderstanding how statistics work right now.

It's been explained to you as well that dropping acid at that frequency doesn't mean you trip all that well.
My point is that is has a psychological dependency,and after awhile the brain just wants it to not feel washed out

I'm all for it's use . it also helps when facing death. I'm simply saying that there is a dependency potential

Literally all reliable evidence points to the contrary. Your personal anecdotes are irrelevant.

 

[dukkha]

annatta,
where were you getting all that acid in the late 60s?

same place I got hashish.
If you had the money it was around. I really only had one dealer, but he was really good

 

[dukkha]

It's not an accusation, it's literally what happened. Just pointing that out. I think it says alot about you as a poster that you have multiple accounts. How many of the accounts on this site are yours?

2. I make no secret about it,and I do not constantly change names

It prevents bias in the study. Either by placebo effect in the case of the patients taking the drug or by personal cognitive bias for/against the substance in the case of the administrators. Double blinding a study is incredibly important. It makes the study more scientifically sound and reliable.

it's only needed when a placebo is used and the interaction of a therapist might skew results.
Not all placebo studies use double blind -many do not .

That has nothing to do with this. Psych dependence isn't common in psych users. You are completely misunderstanding how statistics work right now.

you don't understand sample sizes.
the fact we are dealing with Schedule 1 means it's a very restricted pool of patients/subjects.

My point is if you change it to a Schedule 4 like Ambien,you are going to have massive amounts of prescriptions.

Yes I'm giving anecdotal,and I was a complete freak back then with utter disdain for any drug controls
I'd smoke hash in church if it was cold outside. I did NOT give a flying fuck about "norms"
but I am not lying as you accused me either.

I'm telling you what went down,and I recall the constant usage. and the need to drop even after dropping the day/night before after awhile to overcome mental fatigue. It's hard to forget that..lol

Literally all reliable evidence points to the contrary. Your personal anecdotes are irrelevant.

what "reliable evidence? show me some studies of long terms use, and the potential for abuse?
Aren't these still experimental studies? (asking)

 

[sear]

"people have been smoking ganga and eating mushrooms for centuries" e #22

For millennia, quite likely since the dawn of our species.

What has changed e #22 is both the % of time an individual has for drug abuse, and the ratio of the population that participates.

Birds show preference for fermented berries, and have been observed exhibiting drunkenness.
Dogs like beer. Another excuse to sleep it off on the lawn.

But it's a mistake to think of it as a binary. There are subtleties that we should take into consideration.

Beer and wine for example have natural ethanol concentration limits. But technology, the invention of stills, for distillation, enables humans to concentrate ethanol up to about 190 proof. Concentrations above 190 proof (95%) reportedly extract H2O from the air.

Leisure time was a rare commodity for most of human history, until just a few centuries ago.
- smoking or salting kills, fish venison, etc.
- skinning and tanning hides for shoes, reins, etc.
- canning the family garden's summer bounty for the long Winter ahead.
- collecting and storing enough firewood to last the Winter,
- life just a few centuries ago was nearly endless toil.

Today our 40 hour work-week leaves us a lot of spare or idle time.
And globalization has made available recreational drug options far more rare a few centuries ago. Cocaine is available for the asking. Crack didn't exist back then, it's a product of the Drug War.
LSD and other inventions, also unknown. And the hypodermic syringe was not available until fairly recently.

So in 2018 we are at a confluence of opportunistic hedonism.
- We have the time.
- We have a full suite of recreational drug options.
- And because so many recreational drugs are "illegal" to sell to ANYone, the criminals that sell them often sell them to anyone, including minors. I've been proofed buying beer. If I bought an illegal drug, would the dealer verify my age first? The irony of that of course is, we've ceded to the criminals control of the drugs deemed most dangerous.
That's why our government has better control of the beer & wine & tobacco markets than it does over marijuana, cocaine, and psilocybin markets.
That's why Drug War accomplishes exactly the opposite of what it's ostensibly waged to prevent.

Carrie Fischer said the last time she took LSD was in Sri Lanka: "there was an elephant on the beach. And I thought, now I'm not hallucinating. If there really is an elephant on the beach, then what am I taking the acid for?"

I turned to drugs for mind expansion & pain reduction. What resulted was pain expansion and mind reduction. Carrie Fischer

 

[dukkha]

my philosophy is legalize it and control it. when it's illegal there are literally no controls.
Just like when you first start tripping it's best to do it with a guide & astral-traveler.

Then you "learn" about it by use and can then apply you own limitations that work for you.

I've even learned how to use dope. When it's there it's there,and when it's not do something else.
But I think I learned how to do that from Buddhism - how to see that attachments are not real -
just what you make them out to be.

anyways..prohibition is always a disaster

 

[sear]

"anyways..prohibition is always a disaster" n #33

As the 21st Amendment has demonstrated.

For "prohibition" is the martial usurpation of the unalienable right of Liberty.
Unalienable means: not to be separated, given away, or taken away *.
So Drug War is the martial usurpation of an unalienable right. Savor the absolute contradiction.

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

 

[Rune]

psychotropic drugs are deceptively addictive.
I think I dropped acid like 1000 days in a row in high school for the altered state. severe psychological dependence.

Explains your current state of self delusion perfectly.

 

[Rune]

any drug that hits neuroreceptors builds tolerance.

I was dealing. I had yellow sunshine and some window pain ,and I think purple haze and blue microdot.
white lightning and blotter of course
I had more acid then I could sell in high school and just dropped it for the fuck of it.
I'm counting in night tripping as well

same with mushrooms in the early 80's. I'd put out a bowl for parties, or pack a lunch for work
and toss in a few caps/stems. *munch munch*

I used to buy sheets for $80 and sell for 3 bucks a hit.
I always had pocketfuls of money.

I don't know how many hits I did. Maybe 35-50.

I used to miss normalcy and didn't get normal by tripping more. That is bullshit. The way to get normal was to clean out.
I ran with a large crowd, we all did acid and drank alcohol and smoked weed and opium.

The last time I tripped was in 1985, I had stopped drinking 2 .5 years before.

Neither me nor any of my crowd ever felt addicted to acid.
Your anecdotal tale just proves you are a retard.

 

[TrippyHippy]

2. I make no secret about it,and I do not constantly change names

Fine. Whatever. I have to know, what is the purpose of you having two accounts though?

it's only needed when a placebo is used and the interaction of a therapist might skew results.
Not all placebo studies use double blind -many do not.

This was such a study where double blind was used, and it was necessary to do so.

you don't understand sample sizes.
the fact we are dealing with Schedule 1 means it's a very restricted pool of patients/subjects. My point is if you change it to a Schedule 4 like Ambien,you are going to have massive amounts of prescriptions.

Yes, and that was taken into account in these trials. It is possible to maintain statistical accuracy within a small pool of subjects if proper precautions are made. I happen to trust the method established neuroscientists took. Not to mention there are many illuminating studies saying the same thing that were done before psychedelics were put on schedule 1, and therefore had a far bigger pool of subjects.

In any case, it's still far more reliable than your anecdotal story.

what "reliable evidence? show me some studies of long terms use, and the potential for abuse?
Aren't these still experimental studies? (asking)

I have already posted a very comprehensive study done specifically on the potential for abuse with these drugs. Of which they found none. There are others, if you wish to seek them out. Them, plus the more extensive studies done in the 50s and 60s, coupled with national survey data indicating frequency of use among psychedelic users makes a decently strong case. A far stronger case than for the argument they do create dependency in users. So far all you have for me are extremely dubious stories from your high school days. Forgive me if I don't exactly consider that iron-clad evidence.

 

[zymurgy]

psychotropic drugs are deceptively addictive.
I think I dropped acid like 1000 days in a row in high school for the altered state. severe psychological dependence.

that isn't possible.

the brain needs to reboot from LSD - it becomes a placebo for sometime after. Mushrooms can be used daily however.

 

[tinfoil]

Ours is an utterly ignorant and idiotic society with regard to this type of thing, and many others come to think of it. We believe, but do not think.

It's because we require an authority to validate our facts. We're such a corrupt society we can't rely on people to be honest with even doing science. So then our authorities become corrupted and we have no hope but to think for ourselves. Then we are branded "deniers"

 

[sear]

"We're such a corrupt society we can't rely on people to be honest with even doing science." tf #39

Corruption, & dishonesty are convenient scapegoats.

Science is a discipline that laymen take for granted. But science is not child's play.

It takes many years of training to create a worthy scientist.

Good science relies on peer review. Even the titans are scrutinized by a bevy of vultures, poised to rip apart any flaw.

Both Newton & Einstein ran the gauntlet.
Each revolutionized human understanding of our natural world. Not clear to me how honesty factors in. Validity is the issue.