klaatu
Fusionist
Almost like saying "Almost everything cant be made from nothing"
Jarhead's delusional view on Obamacare...
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
- Start date
Almost like saying "Almost everything cant be made from nothing"
What many detractors of Romney's Health Care Plan fail to see is that people were not going without essential health care, they were simply not paying for it.
Mostly taxpayers or insured people were paying for it.
Now the uninsured did not usually get what is considered unessential care.... thats preventative care thus the essential care they did recieve was more expensive than if they had care.
I agree that the current health care plan does not go far enough, there is no public option... but its a HUGE start and will lead to a GREATER AND HEALTHIER AMERICA.
The plan the Republicans want, the entirely corporate private healthcare system, would work, and be financially beneficial to the nation if the American people, and the Republicans party would have the balls to let people die in the streets from lack of care. Untill then, we need a less cut-throat system.
Mostly taxpayers or insured people were paying for it.
Now the uninsured did not usually get what is considered unessential care.... thats preventative care thus the essential care they did recieve was more expensive than if they had care.
I agree that the current health care plan does not go far enough, there is no public option... but its a HUGE start and will lead to a GREATER AND HEALTHIER AMERICA.
The plan the Republicans want, the entirely corporate private healthcare system, would work, and be financially beneficial to the nation if the American people, and the Republicans party would have the balls to let people die in the streets from lack of care. Untill then, we need a less cut-throat system.
zoombwaz
Radical Moderate Populist
The reason I asked was that the only thing incorrect about Jarod's statement was that he qualified it with almost. The fact is that the statement, "Nothing about God can be proven," is not only true, it can't be debated. Proof only exists in logic and some, but not all math disciplines, and in all cases is rigidly limited with a set of inviolable parameters that limit the scope of what can be proved or disproved, and as the concept of God is defined, that concept lies well outside the limits of proof. The concept of God is therefore non-logical, and logic is simply inadequate to the task of establishing proof or disproof of the existence or nonexistence of God. It is either accepted or denied on faith alone. Faith is defined as belief in something for which there is no proof or objective evidence (for the religious and atheists alike...the former has faith that God exists, the latter has equal faith that God does not exist) or simply not accepted (for the agnostic, who doesn't have faith in anything, or the apatheist, who doesn't know if God exists and doesn't care).
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I happen to think the concept of God is absolutely logical, and it's quite illogical to conclude otherwise. There are many things that can't be physically 'proven' to exist, yet we know they do exist. Dreams, for instance... Thoughts... Imagination... all concepts that we would have a difficult time providing physical proof for, but we do understand they exist. And yes, I realize we can measure brain waves and such, but that doesn't provide proof of those things existing.
Consider this, you have absolutely no proof that God doesn't exist... therefore, you rely on FAITH that God doesn't exist. This by your OWN definition of faith. I guess that's why I found Jarhead's statement so intriguing, it leads me to believe he actually thinks there may be some things about God that can be proven. I think it was brilliantly insightful for a retard, so I quoted him.
Oh, and the apostrophe... I always had a difficult time with when to use those... drives English majors up the damn wall for some reason.
Heck! Gives them something to do beside picking the lint out of their belly button!
Cotton Pickers!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No one has "died in the streets" due to lack of medical care in America since about 1946, when they passed the Hill-Burton Act. Even prior to that, going back to the very first hospital in America, founded by Benjamin Franklin, medical care has been largely 'charitable' and available to the public at large.
You fail to explain how this new massive and bloated government-run system is supposed to eventually provide greater quality care, you keep saying it, but you've offered NOTHING to support that fantasy. You are constructing a system that is untenable and can't be paid for without drastic rationing of health care. Not only that, but you wish for it to be administered by one of the most historically inept entities to administer anything, the government. It just doesn't follow logic that our government is suddenly going to be the model of efficiency and lower cost, when it comes to health care.
I never said anyone has died in the streets due to a lack of medical care, that was exactly my point.
When people can get preventative care without going broke, the entire health care system will be better. THe system will work, we can afford for every American to have access to quality healthcare, no doubt, in fact it will be cheaper than what were doing....
You see when you practice cost shifting, thats what was occuring, the insured end up paying 6 bucks for an asprin while 7 uninsured people pay nothing.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Jarhead: The plan the Republicans want, the entirely corporate private healthcare system, would work, and be financially beneficial to the nation if the American people, and the Republicans party would have the balls to let people die in the streets from lack of care. Untill then, we need a less cut-throat system.
What the fuck do you mean you never said that? It's right there in black and white, you goofy fuck! People aren't dying in the streets, they haven't been for about the past century in America! We have indigent care laws in every state, and every hospital is obligated to provide medical care, regardless of ability to pay. No republican I know of has ever suggested we abandon our current laws and kick people out into the street to die!
You keep yammering this nonsense, but you won't explain HOW! Tell us how in the fuck you add 40 million extra people to the system, who can't afford medical care, and it isn't going to cost those who can afford it, more money? You can't mandate that doctors work for free, or hospitals to operate as non-profit charity organizations. Someone has to pay for these extra 40 million people you're adding! Plus, not only will they have to foot the bill for emergency care, they are going to have to pay for preventative care too... yet, it's somehow going to cost us less? This makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever, and you refuse to explain it!
No, I am sorry, you fucking moron, it will cost us considerably MORE to care for every little ache and pain people have across the board. Do you even comprehend the cost to provide this sort of care to just the nutjobs who are hypochondriacs? They can go to the doctor or hospital every day, with a different new complaint, and get free medical care for all their phantom problems, but that's okay, because in Jarhead's world, the more who abuse the system, the less it will cost us! What you are continuing to say, doesn't even compute as rational!
So your solution is, add another 40 million who can't afford insurance, and that will make the price of the aspirin go down? Increasing demand ALWAYS makes the price of ANYTHING go up, not down! The entire reason an asprin now costs $6 in a hospital, is because someone has to pay for the kidney dialysis of the homeless guy, who we didn't want to 'die in the streets' due to lack of medical care. What you are doing is insane, and can't possibly bring costs down, for anybody!
You are not adding 40 Million people to the system, you see, as you correctly stated, those 40 million people were already being treated by the system. They simply were being treated in a much more expensive, less efective and less efficent way........
Increasing demand ALWAYS makes the price of ANYTHING go up, not down!
Really? Is that how it worked with the Automobile? Is that the way it worked with the television? Is that the way it worked with the PC?
No, increasing demand does not always make the price go up! Once everyone in America wanted a PC, the price droped drastically....
Really? Is that how it worked with the Automobile? Is that the way it worked with the television? Is that the way it worked with the PC?
No, increasing demand does not always make the price go up! Once everyone in America wanted a PC, the price droped drastically....
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Jarhead, you are talking about consumer products now! It's completely different, when you can produce more of something to meet the demand. In the beginning of autos, computers, tvs, before they were being produced in massive quantities to meet the demand, they were very expensive and only the wealthy could afford them, it wasn't a matter of people not wanting to buy them, it was a matter of supply and demand. With healthcare, you can't produce more to meet the demand. We have a limited number of hospitals and doctors, it's not a consumable product like tv's, autos, and computers!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
You're still not explaining how the current HCR system is going to reduce the overall costs. You keep saying it, you keep making that claim, you keep basing an argument on that assumption, but you can't explain how this happens.
If those 40 million were already being treated by the system, why did we need this massive overhaul of the entire health care system? You claimed it was because so many people could get health care, now you admit they were getting health care already? You continue to make NO SENSE whatsoever!
You said, ALWAYS and ANYTHING....
I belive always means "any circumstance" and anything includes consumer products...
Hospitals can be build, Doctors can be educated....
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
*sigh* Read what I posted again, doofus.
Increasing demand ALWAYS makes the price of ANYTHING go up, not down!
In the case of consumer products, the demand is met with increased production of the consumer good. There is no increased demand over the supply, whenever that does become the case, the price is increased... ALWAYS! This is basic economics....supply and demand!
With health care, we have a limited number of doctors and hospitals, we don't mass produce health care, we can't, it's not a consumer product. We have a set number of physicians and hours in the day, and we've increased the demand for their time and services exponentially. This can ONLY mean an increase in price.
zoombwaz
Radical Moderate Populist
I don't have faith that God doesn't exist. That would make me an atheist. I don't have faith in anything existing or not existing, which makes me an agnostic. If it can't be proven logically or demonstrated scientifically, I don't concern myself with it. BTW, if God exists, he is by definition non-logical. In the logical world, beings can exist in only one place and one time. The causal nature of logic demands that. There is no logical framework that allows for the existence of a being who is everywhere and everywhen. Such a being is non-logical.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Nonsense. Gravity is everywhere. When you say "being" you seem to be under a misconception that God is a "being" such as a human or a horse. God is a spiritual "entity" not a physical "being" and there is a marked difference. Lots of things can't be proven logically or scientifically, black holes, for instance. Can you explain them logically? Can you explain dark-matter scientifically? If you can, there are a great many astrophysicists who'd like to hear from you. There is FAR more we simply don't understand about our universe than we do understand, and to assume something is either "logical" therefore "true" and something is "illogical" therefore "untrue" is an affront to the very nature of science. I prefer to keep an open mind and not draw conclusions, we don't know or understand EVERYTHING!
apple0154
MEOW
"Socialist communist countries ruled by dictators." Are you out of your mind?
As for wait times of course there are wait times. It's the same thing as public highways and toll roads. There is more traffic on public highways. Toll roads are faster but if one does not have the money to pay the toll they go nowhere.
As for the quality it all depends on what you consider quality. If you check life expectancy figures you'll see there are countries with universal plans with higher life expectancy than the US.
I assume you're referring to places like some cancer clinics with manicured lawns and pools with tropical fish and expensive wall hangings and other "amenities" designed to suck the last few dollars from a dying patient's pocket, assuming of course, the dying person can afford to go there to begin with.