Jan 6 committee allegedly suppressed testimony showing Trump admin pushed for Nationa

T. A. Gardner said:
Also, the National Guard is STATE funded first and foremost. The feds may chip in, but it is a STATE organization. States control their NG units, decide promotions, etc., not the federal government. Yes, the President and Congress can nationalize them for service, but there is a procedure for that.
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DC is not a state, nor even a territory is the common sense. It is a "federal district" according to the Constitution. That means the DC National Guard is funded by the substitute for a state, namely the federal government. The Commander-In-Chief is the President who acts as Governor of DC.

If nationalized, they cannot be used as law enforcement. But if left under state, or in this case federal district authority, they are very much law enforcement. So again, in DC, trump, and trump alone had the authority to call up the National Guard for law enforcement.
 
Walt said:
My house is controlled by me. The police can be on the streets outside my house, without my permission. They can walk up to the door, without my permission. The governor can deploy the National Guard to around my house, without my permission.

And if someone enters my house illegally, the police and National Guard can follow them in to help.

So trump could have called up the National Guard, without Congress. He could have surrounded the Capitol Building, without Congress. He could have sent the National Guard into the Capitol Building, in the unlikely event the rioters were able to breakthrough the National Guard.

All he needed Congress' permission to do was if he wanted to use the National Guard as a battering ram to attack the Capitol Building.
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That's nothing but an irrelevant No True Scotsman fallacy. Doesn't apply to government.
 
Hermes Thoth said:
yes actually.

it's the norm and custom.
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The National Guard is on the southern border, doing nothing useful. Did Pelosi approve that?

Pelosi is not President, nor governor of a state, so is not part of the chain of command to approve call ups.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
And, who would he call up from the DC guard?
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Whoever he damn well pleases. If it is not enough, he can call on other Governors to lend support.

T. A. Gardner said:
The ONLY unit trained and equipped for the mission is the 372nd MP battalion. That's less than 600 total troops in three companies.
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Untrue. This happens every inaugural so they have a full plan to call up the MPs, but also the rest of the DC National Guard to lend support. All the DC National Guard has some riot control training.
 
Walt said:
DC is not a state, nor even a territory is the common sense. It is a "federal district" according to the Constitution. That means the DC National Guard is funded by the substitute for a state, namely the federal government. The Commander-In-Chief is the President who acts as Governor of DC.

If nationalized, they cannot be used as law enforcement. But if left under state, or in this case federal district authority, they are very much law enforcement. So again, in DC, trump, and trump alone had the authority to call up the National Guard for law enforcement.
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Doesn't change that the only unit in the DC National Guard trained and equipped for the mission is an MP battalion with less than 600 troops in it. Or, do you want to call up the truck drivers, cooks, and clerks in other units and hand them a rifle with another potential Kent State occurring?
 
Walt said:
Whoever he damn well pleases. If it is not enough, he can call on other Governors to lend support.



Untrue. This happens every inaugural so they have a full plan to call up the MPs, but also the rest of the DC National Guard to lend support. All the DC National Guard has some riot control training.
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90% of it has no riot control training.
 
Walt said:
The National Guard is on the southern border, doing nothing useful. Did Pelosi approve that?

Pelosi is not President, nor governor of a state, so is not part of the chain of command to approve call ups.
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dc is a special case.

its also customary to respect local authorities so as to not give the appearance of tyranny.

the national guards are wanted in texass to enforce the border.

thanks everybody.

pelosi didn't want it. that's the point.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Doesn't change that the only unit in the DC National Guard trained and equipped for the mission is an MP battalion with less than 600 troops in it. Or, do you want to call up the truck drivers, cooks, and clerks in other units and hand them a rifle with another potential Kent State occurring?
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The entire DC National Guard has riot training, because they are called up every four years to handle the inauguration. They are under the direction of the MP's, but can handle the simple parts of the job.

The entire National Guard got some more riot training after the Kent State Massacre, and the failures at the Chicago Convention before that. Then again, the National Guard also had riot training before the Chicago Convention. In fact, the National Guard units spent more time training for the Chicago Convention than actually failing at the Chicago Convention.

The National Guard gets law enforcement training, because they are a law enforcement unit. The problem especially with the Kent State Massacre is the National Guard was not getting any serious training. It was being used as a method to draft dodge.

Oddly enough, the draft dodging National Guard members killed William Schroeder, a member of ROTC. Schroeder was at Kent State getting a bachelors degree to become an officer in the US Army. He was specifically studying Vietnamese, because he believed he would be deployed to Vietnam. He was not much politically involved with anything, just wanted to serve his country. He was walking between classes, when the draft dodging National Guard shot him.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
90% of it has no riot control training.
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That is completely untrue.

With low intensity warfare being such a real issue today, EVERYONE in the military has some riot training. It is absolutely essential. The National Guard, being a law enforcement force, has more than most.
 
Hermes Thoth said:
dc is a special case.
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Yes, and no. It is unusual in that the Federal Government is considered the state, but not that unusual in what the state powers over the National Guard.

Hermes Thoth said:
its also customary to respect local authorities so as to not give the appearance of tyranny.
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It is under the authority of the state. The state governor can respect the local authorities, or not. The National Guard is often called in when the state has lost confidence in the local authorities. The local authorities were setup by the state.

As for "tyranny", why would the state be assumed to be tyrannical, but not the local governments. It really does not matter, the states are in the Constitution, not the local authorities.

Hermes Thoth said:
the national guards are wanted in texass to enforce the border.
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Great example. The local authorities do not want the National Guard, but it really does not matter because the state does want the National Guard.

Hermes Thoth said:
pelosi didn't want it. that's the point.
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She is not even part of the local government, so who cares. Her authority literally only covers the House Chamber... One room, in the Capitol Building that was not even used for the count.
 
ExpressLane said:
Pelosi and Bower were responsible for the Capitol security. Trump had authorized them to use the Guard THEY rejected it because of OPTICS. Dumber76 you are a chronic liar like you god Joke Bribem.
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Which are you stupid or lying? Pelosi had no power and she was on the phone begging the people with power to send help. It was Trump's insurrection and when he finally gave it up and told them to go home, they did. https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-235651652542 You really should widen your reading. The repetitive crap you read is making you sadly misinformed.
 
Hermes Thoth said:
he tried.

pelosi said no to protect her little soft presence entrapment scheme, like a bitch.
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Pelosi did not say "no" because she has nothing to do with Capitol security. The president must actually request the national guard. He simply told Matthews that it looked like they would need about 10,000 troops (according to Matthews).

This sounds like the guy who assaulted a police officer and then defended himself by saying there should have been more police present. The people who attacked the Capitol refuse to take responsibility and are trying to shift the blame to their political rivals.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Because she is in control of the House and Congressional security. It's a separate branch of government. Trump cannot do anything on Capitol hill without the leaders of Congress approving of it because of the separation of powers. Trump could have called up the Guard, but they couldn't be deployed to the Capitol without Congressional leadership permission, and Pelosi refused to give it.

Also, the National Guard is STATE funded first and foremost. The feds may chip in, but it is a STATE organization. States control their NG units, decide promotions, etc., not the federal government. Yes, the President and Congress can nationalize them for service, but there is a procedure for that.
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10,000 kinds of bullshit. He could deploy the Guard anywhere he chose to.

The DC Guard is at his DIRECT DISPOSAL. About 3,500 of them. He did not call them up, either. The Insurrection Act gives him the authority to call up ANY unit. But, he would have to admit it was an insurrection, wouldn’t he.

The procedure for mustering up any guard unit takes about one or two phone calls to a governor or NG commander. Just mere minutes, not 3 1/2 hours. Or, in this case, EVER.
 
ExpressLane said:
Pelosi and Bower were responsible for the Capitol security. Trump had authorized them to use the Guard THEY rejected it because of OPTICS. Dumber76 you are a chronic liar like you god Joke Bribem.
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Trump didn’t authorize shit. They rejected nothing.

DC Guard is 100% under the president’s control. Where were they?
 
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