It's Going Down In Wisconsin

Mott the Hoople said:
The latest polls in Wisconsin have varied but the lowest one showed 51% supported the public unions and the highest showed 66% supported the public unions. Anyway you dice it, the public unions have clear majority support in the State of Wisconsin. Walker is now, politically speaking, between a rock and a hard spot.
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the voters will have the opportunity to express their feelings in the next election.....
 
Bfgrn said:
In a representative republic, elected public servants 'of the people' don't arbitrarily FIRE people who have dedicated their lives to a profession. They don't endanger the public by firing all the policemen and firemen. They don't punish our children and parents by firing all the teachers and educators...THAT my obtuse friend is NOT a representative republic...that is a dictatorship.
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is it punishing the children if the teachers don't show up to teach because they are busy elsewhere fighting for their $600?......and by the way, if it is done by an elected official, it obviously isn't a dictatorship......and if that official fires a teacher who called in and they said they were sick and they are seen on a video demonstrating in Madison it is hardly arbitrary
 
Yurt said:
mark another day of victory

some of the libs on this board are such pussies...if you debate with them and they don't like it, they put you on ignore...its much easier than addressing actual substance, this way, they can continue to keep their head in the sand and believe they are always right
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Or, like Moot, keep telling the same lies over and over...
 
PostmodernProphet said:
is it punishing the children if the teachers don't show up to teach because they are busy elsewhere fighting for their $600?......and by the way, if it is done by an elected official, it obviously isn't a dictatorship......and if that official fires a teacher who called in and they said they were sick and they are seen on a video demonstrating in Madison it is hardly arbitrary
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Well, if Walker does that, I guarantee it will seal his political fate. He will be recalled as soon as legally possible. It wouldn't surprise me if that happens anyways. The America people have an innate understanding of fairness and ethics. This governor is not dealing in good faith or in any fair or moderate way. He is trying to bully the union. People understand what Thomas Jefferson said so concisely:

It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.
 
I don't think what most people get about this is that the ramifications go much farther then what public employees get paid.

This is not about their rights either. It's about OUR rights. So what happens if Walkers measure becomes law?

The Dixies of the world could force teachers to teach creationism in science class and you'd have little recourse but to do it or be fired. You could be forced to teach only the governments political point of view, interpratation of history, enforce their religous beliefs in our public schools, etc, etc and have no recourse but to accept it, do it or lose your job!

A nurse at a public hospital could be ordered not to assist in abortion that would save a womans life and have no recourse but to do it or be fired. She could be ordered not to administer birth control too. She could also be ordered not to give live saving medical aid to someone that is politically unpopular, like an illegal alien and have to choose between her professional oath and saving a human life or her job. Who would protect her from these kinds of retribution?

A police officer can be ordered to torture civilians for testimony or be ordered to lie under oath and have no choice but to obey or be terminated. Who would they turn to?

And then think of this, if they can do it to public workers, then they can do it to you too and you'll have to take it because it will be the law and you'll have no social institutions that can protect you from the abuses of big government and big corporations like trade/labor unions can.

The implications for corruption and tyranny and abuse of the public good by a handful of politicians is so far reaching as to be staggering in scope. If you support Walkers legislation I objure you not to be a thoughtless bootlick like Dixie. Think about the long term and down stream consequences this legislation can have and then go out and support the public workers of Wisconsin! They are our brothers and sisters. Not some hack politician!!!
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
I don't think what most people get about this is that the ramifications go much farther then what public employees get paid.

This is not about their rights either. It's about OUR rights. So what happens if Walkers measure becomes law?

The Dixies of the world could force teachers to teach creationism in science class and you'd have little recourse but to do it or be fired.

A nurse at a public hospital could be ordered not to assist in abortion that would save a womans life and have no recourse but to do it or be fired. She could be ordered not to administer birth control too.

A police officer can be ordered to torture civilians for testimony or be ordered to lie under oath and have no choice but to obey or be terminated.

The implications for corruption and tyranny and abuse of the public good by a handful of politicians is so far reaching as to be staggering in scope. If you support Walkers legislation I objure you not to be a thoughtless bootlick like Dixie. Think about the long term and down stream consequences this legislation can have.
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Mott, what is disturbing to me is many people on the right don't even consider if someone whose been arrested is innocent or guilty, much less if the law they were arrested on if fair.

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
Edmund Burke
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I don't think what most people get about this is that the ramifications go much farther then what public employees get paid.

This is not about their rights either. It's about OUR rights. So what happens if Walkers measure becomes law?

The Dixies of the world could force teachers to teach creationism in science class and you'd have little recourse but to do it or be fired. You could be forced to teach only the governments political point of view, interpratation of history, enforce their religous beliefs in our public schools, etc, etc and have no recourse but to accept it, do it or lose your job!

A nurse at a public hospital could be ordered not to assist in abortion that would save a womans life and have no recourse but to do it or be fired. She could be ordered not to administer birth control too. She could also be ordered not to give live saving medical aid to someone that is politically unpopular, like an illegal alien and have to choose between her professional oath and saving a human life or her job. Who would protect her from these kinds of retribution?

A police officer can be ordered to torture civilians for testimony or be ordered to lie under oath and have no choice but to obey or be terminated. Who would they turn to?

And then think of this, if they can do it to public workers, then they can do it to you too and you'll have to take it because it will be the law and you'll have no social institutions that can protect you from the abuses of big government and big corporations like trade/labor unions can.

The implications for corruption and tyranny and abuse of the public good by a handful of politicians is so far reaching as to be staggering in scope. If you support Walkers legislation I objure you not to be a thoughtless bootlick like Dixie. Think about the long term and down stream consequences this legislation can have and then go out and support the public workers of Wisconsin! They are our brothers and sisters. Not some hack politician!!!
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you're off the deep the end....no way no how does the new law even come within a million miles of your outrageous fear mongering bullshit.

you haven't read the proposed law, because if you had, you wouldn't have made such a stupid post. i challenge you to back up your assertions with cites to the proposed law. don't worry, i'm positive you won't because you can't.
 
Bfgrn said:
Mott, what is disturbing to me is many people on the right don't even consider if someone whose been arrested is innocent or guilty, much less if the law they were arrested on if fair.

Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
Edmund Burke
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what? you're delusional. where you lefties come up with these wild ass thoughts?
 
Bfgrn said:
From conversations with people like you, Dixie, Damn Yankee, etc.
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yeah, you're definitely delusional...i'm quite the opposite. you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. sometimes i take it too far and defend a likely rapist because the DA wouldn't prosecute. you missed that thread, i don't know if you were on the board yet, but i pissed off both cons and libs.

you might want to get to know people a bit more before spouting nonsensical judgements simply because you don't like their political beliefs.
 
Yurt said:
yeah, you're definitely delusional...i'm quite the opposite. you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. sometimes i take it too far and defend a likely rapist because the DA wouldn't prosecute. you missed that thread, i don't know if you were on the board yet, but i pissed off both cons and libs.

you might want to get to know people a bit more before spouting nonsensical judgements simply because you don't like their political beliefs.
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I try Yurt, but you are too anal retentive and myopic. And if you can recognize those tendencies by people on the right, you are obtuse.
 
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Bfgrn said:
I try Yurt, but you are too anal retentive and myopic. And if you can recognize those tendencies by people on the right, you are obtuse.
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no you don't try. you ASSumed i believe a certain way because you don't like my political beliefs. you did not try to ascertain how i believe. so instead of apologizing for wrongly judging me, you insult.

here is some truth for you today, you can thank me later.

some people on every political side judge people unfairly and wrongly. for you to claim its only repubs is so fucking stupid i'm amazed you're not locked up in a loony bin.
 
Yurt said:
no you don't try. you ASSumed i believe a certain way because you don't like my political beliefs. you did not try to ascertain how i believe. so instead of apologizing for wrongly judging me, you insult.

here is some truth for you today, you can thank me later.

some people on every political side judge people unfairly and wrongly. for you to claim its only repubs is so fucking stupid i'm amazed you're not locked up in a loony bin.
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Yurt, you may not be in Dixie and Damn Yankees league, but I've heard enough of your beliefs to say that you are in their minor league system. Anyone who defends a slime ball like Rush Limbaugh has a flawed intrinsic human intelligence.

WHAT I SAID is that 'folks on the right don't even consider if someone whose been arrested is innocent or guilty, much less if the law they were arrested on if fair.'

They believe they're tough on crime, when in reality they are tough on freedom and liberty. The conservative era over the last 40 years stands as proof. They have built their idea of a nanny state.

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