Israeli archaeologist ; No evidence to support Israelites. Old Testament is a myth.

Cypress said:
That is the informed viewpoint.

There are extremists who believe everything in the OT is literally true, and extremists who think everything in it is a lie.

John the Baptist and Jesus' brother James are attested to by Jewish historian Josephus. Jesus himself is attested to by multiple independent sources.

The thing that seals the deal for me on the historicity of Jesus is that it doesn't make any sense that a committee of men would sit around a table in 35 AD and have decided that an executed criminal whose companions abandoned him upon arrest and crucification, would be the ideal model to base a major Mediterranean religion on.
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Excellent point
 
Cypress said:
I agree.
Nor would the first followers of Jesus make up a story of him being crucified. To first century Jews, being crucified was an indication you were cursed by God, and the Jews of Palestine were expecting the Messiah to be a figure of great power. Not someone who would meekly submit to arrest and being nailed to a piece of wood.
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Jesus knew his mission was to go to the cross! It's why he came to earth.
 
Cypress said:
Palestinians have legitimate grievances, But so do the Muslim minorities in China and Myanmar. The laser like focus on the Jews seems to be indicative of a whole other set of motives

The United States never gets credit from the Moonites of the world for helping to end the ethnic cleansing of Bosnian Muslims by Serb Christians.
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The mystery of antisemitism!
 
Cypress said:
I think a lot of progress could be made if Israel openly acknowledged that Palestinians have legitimate grievances that need to be addressed equitably, and if Palestinians openly acknowledged that Israel has a right to exist.
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Palestinians have zero legitimate grievances! Believe it or not,like it or not Israel was given to the Jews by YHWH.
Of course the rest of the world and people that aren't Jews and live there,have issues with that!
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you know what?......I really don't give a fuck if the picture turned out to be something other than what google said it was........I'm arguing with fuckwits who think there's no archeological evidence of ancient Israel......do you think anyone believes idiots like that.......the archeological evidence exists......do your own google.....mindless cunts.....
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Show us pictures of these artifacts.

If David and Solomon ruled over a kingdom of Israel, there would be ancient coins and tablets with Hebrew writings and old ruins of ancient Jewish cities, etc etc.

Yet, there is NOTHING.

Not one ancient shekel.

The Bible is a fairy tale and the Jews have no legitimate claim to Palestine based on having been there first.
 
moon said:
The importance to Americans of clarifying that the Old Testament is a work of fiction is that the beliefs of Evangelists and Christian Zionists are based on hogwash. These groups practically run America and are responsible for supporting Israeli fascism- to their own ends, obviously- which has been responsible for the deaths or displacement of millions of people- and still threatens more war for the US in the ' cause ' of Israel's security.
All those American service personnel- and other nationalities too- that have died or been disabled in Israeli-led Middle East conflicts have died and suffered for lies. Jewish claims in the bible are baseless, unsupported by any evidence.
We should all stop listening to false preachers who tell us that it is true. They have themselves been deceived.

When the bugles blow again- detain the bugler.
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He must be an atheist and so he will never accept the Torah. So he is saying King David never existed and Jesus was not crucified? HAHAHAHA. this guy has no credibility
 
Cypress said:
Hezbollah terrorists are one thing, and I have no sympathy for them

But there are five million Palestinian civilians who have never killed a Jew, don't necessarily agree with Hezbollah actions, and are being robbed of living a dignified human life
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The problem should be obvious to you. To the world
Palestinians home land is Palestine!
But YHWH chose to give Palestine to the Jews as Israel.
This situation has gone on since Abraham .
img_1_1681516771404.jpg
Things will stay this way till,the Dome of the Rock is replaced by the third Jews Temple! When that happens even skeptics like Cypress will start to see the hand of God is at work in Israel.
 
Nomad said:
There is no archeological evidence that Israel dates back to 5,000 BC as the Bible and the Torah and the Zionists base their claims that the Jews have ownership rights to the land that used to be Palestine, based on having been there first thousands of years ago during these supposed kingdoms that, as I said....

...THERE IS ZERO ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF.
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What proof would satisfy you that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you know what?......I really don't give a fuck if the picture turned out to be something other than what google said it was........I'm arguing with fuckwits who think there's no archeological evidence of ancient Israel......do you think anyone believes idiots like that.......the archeological evidence exists......do your own google.....mindless cunts.....
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I was on this thread before you making the case that the Second Temple period is well within the verifiable written and archeological historical record. The question, going back to the OP, is the historicity of the unified monarchy and the first temple period.

On the other tangent, I think the last time the name Israel was used in the area was in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, until the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom of Israel. That name wasn't used for the area again until 1948. The Selucids, Persians, and Romans had different names for that part of the eastern Mediterranean Levant; the Romans called it Palestine. I don't remember what the Selucids and the Persians called it, but I don't think they called it Israel.
 
Cypress said:
I was on this thread before you making the case that the Second Temple period is well within the verifiable written and archeological historical record. The question, going back to the OP, is the historicity of the unified monarchy and the first temple period.

On the other tangent, I think the last time the name Israel was used in the area was in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, until the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom of Israel. That name wasn't used for the area again until 1948. The Selucids, Persians, and Romans had different names for that part of the eastern Mediterranean Levant; the Romans called it Palestine. I don't remember what the Selucids and the Persians called it, but I don't think they called it Israel.
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Review Jewish history just from 1932 to May 1948 ,and say there isn't something not seen at work?
 
Cypress said:
I was on this thread before you making the case that the Second Temple period is well within the verifiable written and archeological historical record. The question, going back to the OP, is the historicity of the unified monarchy and the first temple period.

On the other tangent, I think the last time the name Israel was used in the area was in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, until the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom of Israel. That name wasn't used for the area again until 1948. The Selucids, Persians, and Romans had different names for that part of the eastern Mediterranean Levant; the Romans called it Palestine. I don't remember what the Selucids and the Persians called it, but I don't think they called it Israel.
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My point had to do with the claim that the Jews or more specifically the state of Israel, has a historical right to Palestine based solely on having been the first people to live there, some 5,000 years before Christ.

Yet, even though there is literally tons of proof that the ancient civilizations of Egypt existed during the same time period in the form of every conceivable kind of artifact, they have not found so much as one coin minted under either of the two kings who supposedly ruled an ancient Israel or Jewish kingdom.

It's just a false justification for having STOLEN their country from its previous rightful owners.
 
Nomad said:
My point had to do with the claim that the Jews or more specifically the state of Israel, has a historical right to Palestine based solely on having been the first people to live there, some 5,000 years before Christ.

Yet, even though there is literally tons of proof that the ancient civilizations of Egypt existed during the same time period in the form of every conceivable kind of artifact, they have not found so much as one coin minted under either of the two kings who supposedly ruled an ancient Israel or Jewish kingdom.

It's just a false justification for having STOLEN their country from its previous rightful owners.
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My two cents

Coinage wasn't invented until the 6th century BCE, by the Lydians.

I think the unified kingdom of Solomon and David was a small tribal kingdom, or tribal confederation which did not create monumental stone architecture which is what would be detected in archeological investigation.

The fact that the Hebrew bible contains some extremely unflattering stories about David is circumstantial evidence of it's authenticity. A committee of men sitting around a table and fabricating a fake mythology about a fictional glorious patriarch founder would be unlikely to fabricate unflattering stories
 
Cypress said:
My two cents

Coinage wasn't invented until the 6th century BCE, by the Lydians.

I think the unified kingdom of Solomon and David was a small tribal kingdom, or tribal confederation which did not create monumental stone architecture which is what would be detected in archeological investigation.

The fact that the Hebrew bible contains some extremely unflattering stories about David is circumstantial evidence of it's authenticity. A committee of men sitting around a table and fabricating a fake mythology about a fictional glorious patriarch founder would be unlikely to fabricate unflattering stories
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There are other ancient artifacts besides coinage though.

And the buildings would not have to have been of a grand scale.

Jewelry, pottery, artworks, ruins of residential dwellings, etc all have been associated with the ancient Egyptian civilizations of the same time period.

I've read some opinions of archeologists and historians that say if these "kingdoms" existed, they were likely more akin to small villages, where the inhabitants probably lived in small dwellings. I'm guessing maybe tents or huts of some kind, but they were part of a larger population of non-Jews all inhabiting the region.

At any rate, I just think that over the millennia, the stories got told and retold and got successively more exaggerated. But the long and short of it is IMO, that there was no historical right based on "we were here first" for the Zionists to have stolen the Palestinians' land from them.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
okay, fair......the mindfucked atheist you tried to pass off as scholar said it.......all you did was post it.......
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ptif219 said:
He must be an atheist and so he will never accept the Torah. So he is saying King David never existed and Jesus was not crucified? HAHAHAHA. this guy has no credibility
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No, he doesn't say that. He was part of a team of experts. See if you can come close to discrediting them all.

Incidentally, there was no such name as ' David '. The period vernacular was ' Uncle ', we are told. Whether there was a King Uncle or not might interest specialists - which you are not.
 
Mason Michaels said:
Jesus knew his mission was to go to the cross! It's why he came to earth.
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As you are putting yourself forward as being party to the innermost thoughts of the Palestinian, Jesus of Nazareth, could you explain why he chose the Pharisees to rat him out ?
 
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