Is Bill Maher right about the end of democracy?

[Dutch Uncle]

Not a question of being stupid, although with Trump in 2015 makes one wonder, but lack of understanding or concern, bread and butter issues draw more attention than talking about abstract concepts

I blame the Democrats and their fucking child safety laws. If they hadn't saved stupid people from themselves, they wouldn't have grown up to become stupid parents or mentally ill wackos attacking Washington DC pizza parlors and the Capitol. Letting nature take its course is part of nature.

...and you should know it's not wise to mess with Mother Nature.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I expect that after this coming Tuesday we are going to see some news being made.

We live in interesting times! History is being made. Despite Bill Maher's doomsday scenario, I think a nation of 330M people and the world's largest economy is resilient enough to withstand a Reality TV show host and wackadoodle conspiracy theorists. It may take a major tragedy, but like after Pearl Harbor and 9/11, once aroused the American people will band together to squash the threat. I strongly doubt they are so weak they'd give up their security for a temporary security using authoritarianism.

One reason the Republicans keep pushing crime as an issue is because they want martial law. It's what they were pushing for on 1/6; create such a disturbance that martial law is declared. Since the military wouldn't play, causing a failure at the Federal level, the Republicans can try it at the State levels.

Is there a law on how long a state can declare martial law? I expect it'd quickly be sent to SCOTUS.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Your call for civil war is again noted.

So? Why should it matter to me if it is? What are these little note-taking weasels going to do about it?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Just to clear the air:

Had the trendy geniuses said "Demilitarize the Police" instead of "Defund the Police", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks.

Had the trendy genius said "Stop denying" instead of "Woke", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks and panicky condescending from the left wing bull horns.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Just to clear the air:

Had the trendy geniuses said "Demilitarize the Police" instead of "Defund the Police", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks.

Had the trendy genius said "Stop denying" instead of "Woke", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks and panicky condescending from the left wing bull horns.

Most Democrats can't spell "demilitarize". Defund is easier, but agreed it would have been a clearer message.

I've never seen a clear definition of Woke or how it differs from the civil rights movement and social awareness from the 1960s.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Just to clear the air:

Had the trendy geniuses said "Demilitarize the Police" instead of "Defund the Police", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks.

Had the trendy genius said "Stop denying" instead of "Woke", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks and panicky condescending from the left wing bull horns.

Most Democrats can't spell "demilitarize". Defund is easier, but agreed it would have been a clearer message.

Okay, now you're just being silly!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Okay, now you're just being silly!

The best humor is true.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

He has said that democracy is on the ballot next week - and that it will lose.

He makes a persuasive case, and lest anyone think it's hyperbole, you really just have to look at history to see how authoritarian regimes took power. In Maher's estimation, the GOP will take over Congress, and impeach Biden for everything until he's a complete lame duck. Even if he can beat the Trump/Lake ticket at that point, it won't matter. Trump will do the same thing that he did in '20, but this time, with an "army of election deniers" who are about to win next week & who will do for Trump what he couldn't get done last time. They'll "find" votes, and do all of his other bidding to effectively overturn the will of the voters.

He cited the WI GOP governor candidate, who forgot his poker face & said Republicans will never lose another election if he wins.

He paints a pretty bleak picture beyond that. Freedom of religion, other parts of the Bills of Rights, free & fair elections - we'll look back on all of those with nostalgia.

And again: this has happened before in history, and it hasn't been that rare. You don't know what you've got, 'til it's gone.

The way democracy ends is the Left gets control of the government and keeps it. They will codify into law whatever it takes to keep them in power and then they will turn that into a dictatorship. The people screaming the loudest about the end of democracy are the very people who, if elected will end democracy.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Despite BP's excellent Marie Antoinette impression, the reality for American couples and families is that when their costs exceed their income, then they quickly start facing hungry kids and being evicted.

Most American adults would find this disturbing. Princesses and Queens, not so much.

It's not necessary that the rich and powerful of our nation pay less taxes than most American workers. Even Romney made a clear point about the discrepancy, noting he paid less taxes than his secretary.

https://www.zippia.com/advice/how-many-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck/

https://www.statista.com/chart/19635/wealth-distribution-percentiles-in-the-us/

This is just a red herring. It is using envy of others and "The Rich" to get you to sign over your freedom and rights to a totalitarian, radical Leftist government that won't change the system, but rather will ensure it never changes. History provides numerous examples of this.
What you want is a free and open society with lots of social mobility. The United States was this way all the way into the early 20th Century then began to shift Left and allow oligarchies and big government--two things the founders were absolutely against--to worm their way into power. Today, the Left (aka Democrats) want to make that permanent.

 

[Into the Night]

Amazing people won't talk about a speech by President Biden.

Actually, they do. They talk about the way he reads the teleprompter punctuation like an idiot. They talk about his incoherent words. They talk about his 'empire' speech with the civil war mongering and the red background. They talk about his blatant lies.

But, Bill Maher has a TV show!

So?

 

[Into the Night]

I don't believe Americans are this stupid, I really do not. And Maher is just a crank that only right wing libertarians take seriously.

You hope Americans are stupid enough to vote for Democrats.

 

[Into the Night]

Biden tells them the truth and they do not like it. We did not cause inflation but have managed to keep it below many other countries. It is a world problem.

Democrats caused inflation in the United States.

 

[Into the Night]

People are much too willing to forgive themselves for being ignorant.

The "average guy," whom I call Joe Sixpack [Thank you, Sarah Palin--you thought it was a compliment, you stupid schifosa] shouldn't have a vote if he's content to be an unsophisticated voter.

You don't get to decide who gets to vote.

 

[Into the Night]

Just to clear the air:

Had the trendy geniuses said "Demilitarize the Police" instead of "Defund the Police", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks.

Had the trendy genius said "Stop denying" instead of "Woke", things would be much clearer with less BS co-opting from right wing wonks and panicky condescending from the left wing bull horns.

Fogging the air with lies isn't 'clearing the air'.

Democrats funded and supported groups demanding the defunding and dismantling of police.
Democrats created the 'woke' mentality, even calling it that; which is just another way of supporting sexual perversions, racism, and bigotry.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

We live in interesting times! History is being made. Despite Bill Maher's doomsday scenario, I think a nation of 330M people and the world's largest economy is resilient enough to withstand a Reality TV show host and wackadoodle conspiracy theorists. It may take a major tragedy, but like after Pearl Harbor and 9/11, once aroused the American people will band together to squash the threat. I strongly doubt they are so weak they'd give up their security for a temporary security using authoritarianism.

One reason the Republicans keep pushing crime as an issue is because they want martial law. It's what they were pushing for on 1/6; create such a disturbance that martial law is declared. Since the military wouldn't play, causing a failure at the Federal level, the Republicans can try it at the State levels.

Is there a law on how long a state can declare martial law? I expect it'd quickly be sent to SCOTUS.

I have no idea. On Jan. 6, #TRE45ON did not declare martial law, as the insurrectionists were hoping/were told would happen. So the military never had a chance to defy the order. Would they have?

A Repuke state would have to have a serious reason to declare martial law just there. What sort of manufactured crisis would it take to provoke that? Even the BLM protests, violent as some of them were, were limited to small areas in cities. Would such an order (which we can assume would include curfews, blockaded highways where you must present your papers, please, etc.) cover the entire state, or just the area where whatever is happening? What good would it go anyways, politically?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

This is just a red herring. It is using envy of others and "The Rich" to get you to sign over your freedom and rights to a totalitarian, radical Leftist government that won't change the system, but rather will ensure it never changes. History provides numerous examples of this.
What you want is a free and open society with lots of social mobility. The United States was this way all the way into the early 20th Century then began to shift Left and allow oligarchies and big government--two things the founders were absolutely against--to worm their way into power. Today, the Left (aka Democrats) want to make that permanent.

You want to replace your perceptions of the "radical Left" with the authoritarian right. I disagreed. As the tweet below mentions, Plato teaches us "Do not expect justice where might is right." . Your Alt-Right views seek to use force to eliminate all of those with whom you disagree.

If you are really as knowledgeable about history as you claim, then you know that never ends well for people subjected to an authoritarian state.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1589610789039923202

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I have no idea. On Jan. 6, #TRE45ON did not declare martial law, as the insurrectionists were hoping/were told would happen. So the military never had a chance to defy the order. Would they have?

A Repuke state would have to have a serious reason to declare martial law just there. What sort of manufactured crisis would it take to provoke that? Even the BLM protests, violent as some of them were, were limited to small areas in cities. Would such an order (which we can assume would include curfews, blockaded highways where you must present your papers, please, etc.) cover the entire state, or just the area where whatever is happening? What good would it go anyways, politically?

The military already refused to participate in the election dispute. Trump wanted them to start collecting voting machines.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals
Inside the War Between Trump and His Generals
How Mark Milley and others in the Pentagon handled the national-security threat posed by their own Commander-in-Chief.

The President’s loud complaint to John Kelly one day was typical: “You fucking generals, why can’t you be like the German generals?”

“Which generals?” Kelly asked.

“The German generals in World War II,” Trump responded.

“You do know that they tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off?” Kelly said.

But, of course, Trump did not know that. “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” the President replied. In his version of history, the generals of the Third Reich had been completely subservient to Hitler; this was the model he wanted for his military. Kelly told Trump that there were no such American generals, but the President was determined to test the proposition....

...On December 18th, Trump hosted Flynn and a group of other election deniers in the Oval Office, where, for the first time in American history, a President would seriously entertain using the military to overturn an election. They brought with them a draft of a proposed Presidential order requiring the acting Defense Secretary—Christopher Miller—to “seize, collect, retain and analyze” voting machines and provide a final assessment of any findings in sixty days, well after the Inauguration was to take place. Later that night, Trump sent out a tweet beckoning his followers to descend on the capital to help him hold on to office. “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th,” he wrote at 1:42 a.m. “Be there, will be wild!”

Milley’s fears of a coup no longer seemed far-fetched.

While Trump was being lobbied by “the crazies” to order troops to intervene at home, Milley and his fellow-generals were concerned that he would authorize a strike against Iran. For much of his Presidency, Trump’s foreign-policy hawks had agitated for a showdown with Iran; they accelerated their efforts when they realized that Trump might lose the election.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

That's the exact Trumper argument. They're idiots and/or insane. Team Crazy at work.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The military already refused to participate in the election dispute. Trump wanted them to start collecting voting machines.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals
Inside the War Between Trump and His Generals
How Mark Milley and others in the Pentagon handled the national-security threat posed by their own Commander-in-Chief.

I don't think that he actually signed any such orders though. At some level he must have realized that he would have been defied. If he gets into office again, what do you want to bet that those few patriotic military people will no longer be employed?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The way democracy ends is the Left gets control of the government and keeps it. They will codify into law whatever it takes to keep them in power and then they will turn that into a dictatorship. The people screaming the loudest about the end of democracy are the very people who, if elected will end democracy.

^^^
Consistently supports a all-powerful RW authoritarian Federal government.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1589617273999806464