Irony

how your right wing fucks reacted



Distraction from Clinton impeachment scandal[edit]

Some critics of the Clinton administration, including Republican members of Congress,[26] expressed concern over the timing of Operation Desert Fox.[27] The four-day bombing campaign occurred at the same time the U.S. House of Representatives was conducting the impeachment hearing of President Clinton. Clinton was impeached by the House on December 19, the last day of the bombing campaign. A few months earlier, similar criticism was levelled during Operation Infinite Reach, wherein missile strikes were ordered against suspected terrorist bases in Sudan and Afghanistan, on August 20. The missile strikes began three days after Clinton was called to testify before a grand jury during the Lewinsky scandal and his subsequent nationally televised address later that evening in which Clinton admitted having an inappropriate relationship.

The Operation Infinite Reach attacks became known as "Monica's War" among TV news people, due to the timing. ABC-TV announced to all stations that there would be a special report following Lewinsky's testimony before Congress, then the special report was pre-empted by the report of the missile attacks. The combination of the timing of that attack and Operation Desert Fox led to accusations of a Wag the Dog situation.
 
5 Myths (And One Big Truth) About Hillary’s 2002 Iraq War Vote






Although Hillary Clinton has many advantages in the current Presidential campaign (advantages of policy, programs, and, yes, personality) surely her greatest strength vis-à-vis her principal primary opponent is in the area of foreign and global policy—including matters of war and peace, global development and economics, our war against terrorism, and even climate change and preserving the environment. This writer believes that the success of the next President in dealing with these issues will define her or his legacy; indeed the survival of the human race may well turn on how these issues are handled over the next eight years.


In the face of Secretary Clinton’s undisputed strength in these areas, when Bernie Sanders is asked how his experience measures up to hers in the “Commander In Chief” category, he invariably comes up with a single Talking Point.


Unfortunately that Talking Point, presented in Bernie’s shallow vernacular, simply isn’t true. It usually goes something like this:





The key foreign policy vote in modern American history was the 2002 vote as to whether we should go into Iraq. I made the decision not to go to war. Hillary Clinton on the other hand, voted for the war...




Like many simplistic and “sound bite” arguments of the modern era, and of Sanders in particular, the argument that Hillary Clinton supported the war George W. Bush prosecuted in Iraq is nonsense. This falsehood can be broken down into five sub-myths.


Myth #1: The 2002 Congressional Resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq, on which Hillary Clinton and a large majority of U.S. Senators voted yes, gave George W. Bush “carte blanche” to pursue war against Saddam Hussein.


False! In fact exactly the opposite is true: While that Resolution did indeed authorize President Bush, under strict requirements of the 1973 War Powers Act, to use force, Section 3(b) of the Act also required that sanctions or diplomacy be fully employed before force was used, i.e. force was to be used only as “necessary and appropriate in order to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq,” and to do so only upon the President certifying to Congress that “diplomatic or other peaceful means” would be insufficient to defang Saddam.


Despite those legal conditions, the following year we were at war—and millions of us were astonished that the Bush Administration, running roughshod over Congress’s requirements, hadn’t given more time for U.N. inspectors to complete their job of searching for weapons of mass destruction.

Myth #2: By voting for the 2002 Congressional Resolution which authorized (but was also designed to limit) George Bush’s power to wage war in Iraq, Hillary Clinton cannot be considered a “progressive” Democrat.


False! On October 11, 2002, Clinton joined a strong majority of Democrats, including liberal and left-center Democrats like Tom Harkin, John Kerry, and Joe Biden, in voting in favor of the Resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq. Later on, Clinton came to deeply regret giving President Bush the benefit of the doubt on the Resolution, and she has plainly admitted her mistake. Yet it is a “mistake” which many other senators of conscience made with her; if Clinton bears any blame for the resulting war, it is because she placed too much reliance on legislation that was actually designed to check a president’s war-making ability but instead inadvertently gave that president cover to run roughshod over the interests of both Congress and the public at large.


Myth #3: At the time of her vote, Clinton was very supportive of going to war in order to remove Saddam Hussein from power.


False! While Clinton quickly turned against the war, another piece of “lost history” is the deep concern she expressed at the very time of her vote in the fall of 2002. Given the Resolution’s several prerequisites to waging war, Clinton’s vote was for a Resolution that was also supposed to restrain the President’s ability to wage war, and her 2002 floor speech leading up to consideration of the Resolution made this clear:





My vote is not a vote for any new doctrine of preemption or for unilateralism or for the arrogance of American power or purpose, all of which carry grave dangers for our Nation, the rule of international law, and the peace and security of people throughout the world.




These words presaged the doctrine of “smart power” Clinton later espoused as Secretary of State. Her vision is neither interventionist on the one hand nor hesitant and supine on the other, but rather something in between: a belief that the United States is the indispensable leader—in a troubled world where such leadership matters—but a belief still grounded in reality, the limits of American power and, perhaps most significantly, the importance of collaboration with like-minded actors who can be found in every corner of the globe. Meanwhile, as Clinton has said many times, then as now, armed intervention is only to be used as a last resort.

Myth #4: At the time of the 2002 vote, the “architecture” of George Bush’s Presidency was well understood, including a philosophy and history of carrying out pre-emptive wars.


False! In 2002, Clinton palpably feared a precipitous rush to war, but was willing to trust a leader who at the time was only in the second year of his presidency, having just suffered the most calamitous attack on the homeland since Pearl Harbor—and, notably, whose only international venture up until then was a widely applauded campaign to overthrow the Taliban in Al Qaida’s sanctuary of Afghanistan. While it was already well known that Bush had neocon advisers like Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz, the true extent of their influence had not yet been manifested. (Colin Powell was also an important adviser and George W. was, after all, George H.W. Bush’s son.)

Myth #5. Hillary Clinton’s vote belies support for an “Imperial Presidency” that brooks no dissent, and disrespects Congress and other partners, foreign or domestic.


False! To the contrary, one of the reasons Hillary Clinton is so well qualified to be president is because she deeply respects the rule of law and, in particular, appropriate Congressional prerogatives and the Constitutional principle of checks and balances. (Indeed, this is precisely why she voted the way she did on the 2002 Iraq Resolution.) In this vein, she is also uniquely capable of reaching across the aisle to forge common-sense solutions, a “progressive who delivers results,” as she says.


One big truth: Hillary Clinton possesses another, singular, quality: she has the capacity to learn from the hard lessons that our Iraq adventure taught us, including from the misplaced trust she and others conferred on an Administration that brought so much grief to this country. She has said as much in her memoir, Hard Choices:





As much as I might have wanted to, I could never change my vote on Iraq. But I could try to help us learn the right lessons from that war and apply them to Afghanistan and other challenges where we had fundamental security interests. I was determined to do exactly that when facing future hard choices, with more experience, wisdom, skepticism, and humility.




It is clear that Hillary Clinton is a candidate for president who has learned from the lessons of history, and is capable of applying them to the future; in fact this quality is a critical ingredient of great leadership.

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You just went through this a few months ago and you just get stuck on stupid. You criticize people for exercising their free speech by burning their CD's while whining that people want to shut the DCs up.

You're blind on this and your inability to accept anything but what you want to believe hinders you to see the truth and your hypocrisy here.

That's all people wanted to do - shut them up. And now MANY of those same people support a guy who felt the same way the DC did.

Maybe they should have listened, or tried to argue a better point? Maybe by coming up w/ a better argument than "shut up," they would have come to some better conclusions a lot sooner?

You're brain works in such a linear way. You don't get it - and never will on this issue. Kind of desh-like, actually. You have my sympathies on that.
 
That's all people wanted to do - shut them up. And now MANY of those same people support a guy who felt the same way the DC did.

Maybe they should have listened, or tried to argue a better point? Maybe by coming up w/ a better argument than "shut up," they would have come to some better conclusions a lot sooner?

You're brain works in such a linear way. You don't get it - and never will on this issue. Kind of desh-like, actually. You have my sympathies on that.

and you trash Hilary
 
That's all people wanted to do - shut them up. And now MANY of those same people support a guy who felt the same way the DC did.

Maybe they should have listened, or tried to argue a better point? Maybe by coming up w/ a better argument than "shut up," they would have come to some better conclusions a lot sooner?

You're brain works in such a linear way. You don't get it - and never will on this issue. Kind of desh-like, actually. You have my sympathies on that.

Let me try and explain this to you on your level.

1. As Cawacko pointed out, the timeliness is wholly relevant. Today, there is not much support for the Iraq war. Back then there was a near fever pitch for it. So comparing the two as equal is not taking an open and honest look at the two situations.

2. They made the comment overseas. I'm unaware of the so called unwritten rule against that, but I can certainly and at the time remembering, that this was very disrespectful to our President. It wasn't so much their anti war stance as was their comment about our President.

3. Wanting to shut someone up is within the constitution. Making them shut up is not. One is just a reaction, the other is an actual action. That you don't know the difference is bizarre.

4. Your snide comments are in line with someone who simply cannot see any other POV than his own. You simply are incapable of it. Hence why you project and claim I think in a linear way. For example, I do not approve of people calling anti war protesters traitors etc. At the same time, that is their right to do so.

5. The ultimate fact is, the DC's were not shut up and in fact the controversy made their words heard all the more.
 
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